Posts by scout575

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

Perry: I would prefer a third option: Free your slave and love him as your own dear brother. How refreshing it would be to have those words recorded in the NT. Instead, we read: "Ye masters, do the same things unto them ( their slaves ), forbearing threatening." ( Ephesians 6:9 )

I suspect that Paul's words are quite generous when compared to the prevailing first century view of how slaves should be treated, but they fall woefully short of what I would expect to find in a book inspired of a god of perfect love and justice. In a book of many, many prohibitions, not once do we read: Thou shalt not enslave.

6

"A Victim of the Delusion"

by scout575 in

"i regard most church leaders however as simply the victims of the christian delusion.

i believe the delusion comandeers the leaders' rational faculties and shields itself from the light of reason.

i regard myself as formerly a victim of the delusion, and i regard you as still a victim of the delusion.

scout575

"I regard most church leaders however as simply the victims of the Christian delusion. I believe the delusion comandeers the leaders' rational faculties and shields itself from the light of reason. I regard myself as formerly a victim of the delusion, and I regard you as still a victim of the delusion.

If I regarded you as undeluded then I would have animosity toward you for knowingly manipulating people with falsehood. I hope that the impact of the loss of my faith will put a chink in the armour of your delusion, and ultimately liberate you from its repressive control. After the difficult transition period, life really is better this side of Christianity."

The above is part of a letter, written by a newly exited Christian, to his former Pastor. His whole deconversion story ( along with many other Christian decoversion stories, including those of some ex-JWs ), can be found at a website entitled, 'Deconversion stories from Biblical errancy'. The above poster has the initials JB. If you're an exiting JW thinking about joining a different church, please check out this site.

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

Perry: You say that new ,'nutty' Christians needed prohibitions until they matured as Christians. Maybe these same immature Christians could have benefited from a prohibition on enslaving, and yet they are merely advised against treating their slaves too harshly ( Ephesians 6:9 ).

I find it ironic that the NT issues a prohibition on, 'Foolish talking' ( Ephesians 5: 3,4 ), and yet fails to do so with regard to buying, selling and owning slaves. Paul doesn't, 'sow a seed' for the abolition of, 'Foolish talking'; he rather says: "Let it NOT BE ONCE named among you." ( verse 4 ) Why when it comes to the much more morally obnoxious practice of slavery, does he not say to new, 'nutty' Christians, 'Let it NOT BE ONCE practiced among you'?

I suspect that if the NT had have prohibited slavery, many Christians would now be pointing at that prohibition with great pride saying, 'Look how far ahead of its time the NT was, look how 'revolutionary' its teachings are!' Sadly, there is no such prohibition. Sadly, the NT prefers to prohibit, 'Foolish talking'.

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

Perry: As I pointed out earlier, the NT is quite happy to issue prohibitions when it wants to, ie:

1 - Meats offered to idols ( Acts 15:29 )

2 - Blood ( Acts 15:29 )

3 - Things strangled ( Acts 15:29 )

4 - Fornication ( Acts 15:29 )

5 - Divorce ( except on the ground of fornication - Matthew 19:9 )

6 - Lying ( Ephesians 4:25 )

7 - Stealing ( Ephesians 4:28 )

8 - Talking about fornication ( Ephesians 5:3 )

9 - Talking about uncleanness ( Ephesians 5:3 )

10 - Foolish talking - ( Ephesians 5:4 )

11 - Fellowship with darkness - ( Ephesians 5:11 )

These are just a few of the NT prohibitions that I came across in about 5 minutes of looking - there are lots and lots more. What a shame that there's no prohibition on enslaving.

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

Perry: At Ephesians 6:9, Paul addresses Christian slave owners, saying: "Also, you MASTERS, keep doing the same things to them ( their slaves-verses 6-8 ), letting up on the threatening...." What an ideal opportunity this would have been for Paul to condemn and prohibit slavery, and yet he clearly fails to do that, merely telling Christian slave owners not to be too hard on their slaves.

Had he have prohibited slavery, what a difference it would have made to the course of history within Christendom - how much suffering could have been prevented. How ironic that a book that is no slouch when it comes to condemning and prohibiting things, even prohibiting eating blood and things strangled ( Acts 15:29 ), should fail to condemn and prohibit slavery. What a difference just four words could have made: "Thou shalt not enslave." Sadly, those words are not to be found in the NT - just what you'd expect from a man-inspired work written 2000 years ago.

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

Gordy: That rendering of, 'Slavetraders' is not to be found in the translations that I have. Their renderings are, 'Menstealers' or, 'Kidnappers'.

Does the NT prohibit Christians from buying, owning and selling slaves? Absolutely not. It does provide instruction to Christian masters about how to treat their slaves ( Ephesians 6:9 ), but does not instruct Christian slave owners to give their slaves their freedom. It is little wonder that Christians continued to own slaves up until a few hundred years ago when slavery was abolished. It took legislators to prohibit slavery, not the 'cuddly' NT.

20

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 23-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.

but the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.

" ( luke 12:47,48 ).

scout575

"Then that SLAVE that understood the will of his MASTER but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few." ( Luke 12:47,48 )

"Who of you is there that has a SLAVE plowing or minding the flock who will say to him when he gets in from the field, 'Come here at once and recline at the table'? Rather will he not say to him, 'Get something ready for me to have my evening meal, and put on an apron and minister to me until I am through eating and drinking, and afterwards you can eat and drink'? He will not feel gratitude to the SLAVE because he did the things, will he?" ( Luke 17:7-9 )

"You see I was in fear of you, because you are a harsh man; you take up what you did not deposit and you reap what you did not sow. He said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I judge you, wicked SLAVE.' ( Luke 19:21,22 )

Although the NT condemns and prohibits many things, nowhere does it condemn or prohibit the buying, owning and selling of slaves. What a shame.

24

"So Alone"

by scout575 in

"my dad died when i was 13, and my closest cousin got raped and stabbed and burned when i was 15. i am an only child so she was the closest thing i had to a sister.

i felt so alone too.

no one in the churches i attended seemed to care.

scout575

Oops, sorry about the initial blankness of the post, but its absolutely baking hot here in England and the sun has fried me ( already somewhat limited ) brains.

Looks like there's more concern on this site than there was in the above poster's churches.

24

"So Alone"

by scout575 in

"my dad died when i was 13, and my closest cousin got raped and stabbed and burned when i was 15. i am an only child so she was the closest thing i had to a sister.

i felt so alone too.

no one in the churches i attended seemed to care.

scout575

"My dad died when I was 13, and my closest cousin got raped and stabbed and burned when I was 15. I am an only child so she was the closest thing I had to a sister. I felt so alone too. No one in the churches I attended seemed to care. That "Christian love" was totally absent. I wanted a male role model so badly in high school, and no one seemed to have the time for me." This post is taken from the section entitled, 'Testimonies of former Christians' on the ex.Christian.net message board. Its post #8 in a thread entitled, 'The god who let me down time and time again. The poster's name is Pandora. If you're an exiting JW thinking about joining a different church, please become familiar with the perspectives of former Christians.

8

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 16-07-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"for the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

" ( 1 corinthians 11:8,9 ).

scout575

"For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." ( 1 Corinthians 11:8,9 )

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." ( 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 )

"Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be subject to their own husbands in every thing." ( Ephesians 5:24 )

Inspired of man.