Posts by DannyBear

42

Another Victim lost BACK TO WT - how sad

by JT in

jw
friends

a few days back a dfed black woman came to this site - asking for help and looking for answers, so lady "c and myself decided to offer our help, being black we understand that black jw face some issues that a white witness would not, black congo operate many times in a somewhat different fashion in my exp at any rate , we offered our help, we discussed many issues, but in the end she has decided to return back to wt despite the fact that they treat her like dirt- one of the hardest things to watch is to see a jw get so close to freedom and then return to slavery, it reminds me so much of blacks during slavery who were just afraid to run for freedom , even many times when they only needed to cross the river -as a single black mature woman she is facing an uphill battle, if she approaches an elder more than 2 times the elders wife will think she is after her man, if she wants to marry her selection is reduced to some guy with a plaid suit on, instead of the regional director of her company who notices how intelligent she is, but since he don't sell books on the weekend she must let him slide- well here is just a glisp of what we dealt with and how sadly it ended with the jw doing what they have been trained and indoctrinated to do run and deny below are just 3 different sets of dialog .

---- dfed person--sorry, but i don't really think that it is a black and white issue.

jt- o i fully agree it is not a black and white issue, i was merely commenting on what my observation have been, when i was an elder, white bro in meetings would always challenged the co and do if they made some off the wall comment, while black elders would consistently just go along,

DannyBear

Hello Shell,

I got what you are saying. Have to agree that man does have an almost palpable need for the spiritual side.

Where we differ is in the 'direction' of 'leading'. As you and I have discussed before, it is the leading and directing, that has gotten mankind so screwed up. We can debate, argue, till the 'sun don't rise' as to specifics like Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, Jah-Meshica, Buddah, Zen, whatever, as the destination or goal. Does the acceptance of any of these 'spiritual' entities really make a difference?

To you the acceptance of Jesus and his teaching's, satisfies the need. To me the need is satisfied by an acceptance of a belief in a 'creator'....no specific name or atribute need be applied, touted, or proclaimed. Just a simple belief, right or wrong. This allows me to enjoy the same sense of 'sprituality' as any of the above mentioned follower's or subscribers.

So for JT not to direct her or lead her, is really a suberb act of humility on his part. Because once another fellow human asserts or proclaims his/her sprituality is 'the way'. That person or organization becomes just another 'faithful and discreet'......follow me, substitute for a journey that should be left to each individual to decide for themselves.

I guess that is why exclaiming the virtue of Jesus, or any other religious spiritual view, is so distasteful to the majority of us cult survivor's. Jumping from one frying pan into another, is not really the answer.

So not leading or pointing victims who are suffering under cult mind control, in any direction, accept for revealation of the facts, as to lies, dishonesty, false claims, is to say the least, not only kind.....but the pureist form of neighborly love.

Danny

edited to reveal this new word I just coined "revealation"........yes brother's and sister's Danny is "revealationing' amen and amen.

Edited by - DannyBear on 3 January 2003 17:13:10

42

Another Victim lost BACK TO WT - how sad

by JT in

jw
friends

a few days back a dfed black woman came to this site - asking for help and looking for answers, so lady "c and myself decided to offer our help, being black we understand that black jw face some issues that a white witness would not, black congo operate many times in a somewhat different fashion in my exp at any rate , we offered our help, we discussed many issues, but in the end she has decided to return back to wt despite the fact that they treat her like dirt- one of the hardest things to watch is to see a jw get so close to freedom and then return to slavery, it reminds me so much of blacks during slavery who were just afraid to run for freedom , even many times when they only needed to cross the river -as a single black mature woman she is facing an uphill battle, if she approaches an elder more than 2 times the elders wife will think she is after her man, if she wants to marry her selection is reduced to some guy with a plaid suit on, instead of the regional director of her company who notices how intelligent she is, but since he don't sell books on the weekend she must let him slide- well here is just a glisp of what we dealt with and how sadly it ended with the jw doing what they have been trained and indoctrinated to do run and deny below are just 3 different sets of dialog .

---- dfed person--sorry, but i don't really think that it is a black and white issue.

jt- o i fully agree it is not a black and white issue, i was merely commenting on what my observation have been, when i was an elder, white bro in meetings would always challenged the co and do if they made some off the wall comment, while black elders would consistently just go along,

DannyBear

Timing is so critical. As some of you know, my two jw daughter's have reestablished contact with me. In fact my oldest and her husband are coming for a visit next month. Yippeeeeeee.

My youngest (23) has cut off comunications again. Probably my fault, for forwarding a copy of a post relating to a personal experience of a young sister, growing up with a strict jw mother. This particular post really had so many similarities to my daughter's experiences, that I just assumed she would see why I wanted her to read it. Well never assume!

Iam hoping that she will understand my motivation, and open the door to communication again. I took a calculated risk, and it backfired. I can only hope that what this young girl expressed, will stay with may daughter, and when the time or circumstance is right, she will remember.

God damn, this hideous religion is so evil. The victims do not even realize how narrow, how closed minded, they have become. When one cannot even read an experience about a total strangers life, without attributing some sort of 'apostate' conspiracy to it, is it any wonder how few get free from the watchtower grip?

Like you said Jt it just is So Sad!

Danny

7

WT Scapegoat

by Xena in

jw
friends

waiting said something that caught my interest in another thread.

interestingly enough - bowen has offered the wtbts the possibility of an easy out, but which still would help the jw children, which would be the point?

"we didn't write it - that apostate franz wrote it!

DannyBear

Alan,

***I would welcome it if they did, because it would be yet more ammunition to show them up as the lying, self-serving bastards they are***

Thank you. Btw it is good to see you posting again.

Xena,

I remember very well. The time lines of my association with the org just happened to be during the most turbulent years of change. 1960-1980,81 I was 12 yrs old in 1960 so by the time the elder arrangement and rotation system came along I was a young adult.

There was so much bickering and animosity among the elder's in the congregations, about all the changes that the society (as any well oiled cult is want to do) had to change, tighten up the rules. They opened up the doors to exercise of personal conscience, then abruptly slammed them shut. This happened right around the time of Ray's departure.

Like Alan said, individual jw's and even official watchtower commentary, has eluded to the fact that these occurences were caused by 'apostate activity'......anything to weasel out of some bad decisions.

Funny though, they could not do so with Freddie's BIG WHOPPER........1975. There was to much of a paper trail and recording's of Freddie's own words to pull that off!

It is a shame that Bill Bowen, still consider's himself a JW. It is obvious from his recent letter to the GB, that he has not left the organization yet. I feel sorry for the poor sod.

Danny

26

Best wishes for 2003

by animal in

jw
friends

i leave thursday, back on the road for work.

i won"t be around much again and will miss all but the fluffy threads, since they stay on top.

i hope to meet up with viv and her bf, plum and her hubby(?

DannyBear

Animal,

Iam looking forward to reading your book. Maybe published in 2003?

I predict a mixture of 'biker' adventure, along with how you gave the finger to the WTBS!

Happy NEW YEAR!

Danny

20

Analysis of Apostasy

by pseudoxristos in

jw
friends

a load of crap from a jw forum.

i thought everyone would gag enjoy.. .

i have recently written a short essay on the mode and operation .

DannyBear

***I have recently written a short essay on the mode and operation
of apostasy upon the individual attentive to its call.***

This guy likes the sound of his prose. As if to say right from the start........'apostacy'.......by the very nature of the word is steeped in colusive methods, systemized operations, that immediately notify the reader the conclusions they should draw, even before exercising the mental effort to actually make a determined yea or nay, from the facts he will present.

In other words his bias showed in the 9th word of the introduction.

Danny

Edited by - DannyBear on 31 December 2002 22:8:6

38

Tolerance

by Xena in

jw
friends

you know most of us spend a large part of our lives in a religion that allowed for no independant thinking.

we were taught and taught others that ours was the only way and anyone who thought differently was going to be judged unworthy and die.

anyone who presumed to think outside the box was branded "apostate" or not good association.

DannyBear

Big Tex,

*** I made it a point not to read several threads in the whole Bill Bowen/Ray Franz war. After a while it was obvious reason and discussion were left out to be replaced by anger and vitriolic, snide attacks. ***

So what you are saying is that those particular threads violated your comfort zone. That is understandable, especially knowing a little about your past experiences with abuse.

But what you consider to have been warfare, vitriolic, really served to educate all parties involved. It matter's little who can be counted as winner's or loser's in that type of discussion. It served a very good purpose in my mind. If nothing more than, putting absolute trust, unreseved dedication, to any cause or agenda, may well be very harmful to participants.

It matter's little the subject, political, social or religious, when anyone or anything is put up on a pedestal, as a guru or hero, that can do or say anything, damn the consequences...........well you saw what happened.

A lesson that served a positive purpose......even if you do not percieve the positive results at this moment in time.

Danny

38

Tolerance

by Xena in

jw
friends

you know most of us spend a large part of our lives in a religion that allowed for no independant thinking.

we were taught and taught others that ours was the only way and anyone who thought differently was going to be judged unworthy and die.

anyone who presumed to think outside the box was branded "apostate" or not good association.

DannyBear

donkey,

Sometimes your brillant. As is true with most of the poster's here.

I think your last post sums up the need, no I will assert, the absolute necessity for anyone who espouses or proclaims a belief, to be willing if not eager, to hear alternative idea's.

Often the most closely held, almost gaurded thought processes, come from the environment we are raised in. Not discounting upbringing, but if that upbringing is tainted by bias, not to mention bigotry......it is a receipe for tunnel vision. Having been raised a jw, with such a narrow perspective, I know of what I speak. I was a walking, talking, zombie of biased views.

Oh yes it helped other zombies with the same mentality, choose to promote me at a very early age. Even attaining the status of a zombie 'elder' at the tender age of 23. At 32 yrs of age, some of the scales fell off, and I broke the chains, violating my own belief system. Thats what it took for me, to get released from the bondage. In Feb I turn 55........still working on getting rid of the last vestiages of tunnel vision!

Danny

edited to add: HAPPY NEW YEAR to you Andee, Xena, donkey, and all! Damn I hope this new one is gonna be better!

Edited by - DannyBear on 31 December 2002 18:38:4

38

Tolerance

by Xena in

jw
friends

you know most of us spend a large part of our lives in a religion that allowed for no independant thinking.

we were taught and taught others that ours was the only way and anyone who thought differently was going to be judged unworthy and die.

anyone who presumed to think outside the box was branded "apostate" or not good association.

DannyBear

Andee,

***But, once the facade of conservative dress and heavy bookbags are scratched off the surface a much more sinister picture begins to form and the dirty WTS underbelly is exposed and can no longer be considered "harmless".***

Oh so true.

Funny how seemingly harmless idea's turn into utter evilness. I suppose when Charles Taze released his then pioneering effort, Photo Drama of Creation, many would have considered it harmless. Yet the foundation of his 'harmless' musings, went on to set the stage for other's to build thier own 'harmless' beliefs.

Today some 6 million or more suffer the effects of what an insignifcant, white bearded, bible student, in the late 19 century, offered up as his 'faithful and discreet' interpretation ( beliefs ) of what was god's 'plan of the ages'.

We collectively have paid a tremendous price for his 'harmless' ramblings.

Danny

38

Tolerance

by Xena in

jw
friends

you know most of us spend a large part of our lives in a religion that allowed for no independant thinking.

we were taught and taught others that ours was the only way and anyone who thought differently was going to be judged unworthy and die.

anyone who presumed to think outside the box was branded "apostate" or not good association.

DannyBear

Xena,

Everytime I see an author of a thread, respond to everyone who posts, it affirms that some people still have, and show, common courtesy. It is such a simple act, yet it shows more than tolerance, it shows compassion and appreciation for other's.

Good for you.

Danny

27

Board wars :(

by LyinEyes in

jw
friends

seems like tension is high right now, and i really hate tension, especially when i get right in the middle of it...........lol..... i swear i am not a troublemaker ,,, for the most part.... i enjoy this board because i have alot of good friends here, i have learned alot and this place will always have a special place in my heart because of that.. i like moe and randoms board because they are my friends and i like it there too.. i even lurk at jwo because i am nosey and i am interesting in certain ones and what is going on in their world.

i worry,,,,,,,,,,, because i do care too much of what people think of me,,,,,,,,,, that by going to these other boards that i will be lable as disgruntled.

i am not in anyway.........i go to different boards because i have friends that go there.

DannyBear

Simon,

***Perhaps that is why some have so much 'vitriol' for me? ... because I didn't show them as much respect as they thought they deserved and didn't allow them free reign as they wanted.***

'Perhaps'......is way to kind of an expression. It is obvious from the constant rile about your decision's, that these disgruntled ones, just don't get it. They continue to moan and groan, like children who are ignored.

Sometimes it takes a firm 'go to your room', until you can act like a civil human, before being allowed back in the living room.

Cheers to your resolve!

Danny