Posts by DannyBear

33

Belching Gun on Fitzwater Case

by AlanF in

the following material is far more than a smoking gun -- it's a flash picture of a gun belching fire.

in connection with bill bowen's las vegas news conference today, bill released the following documents to the public: .

http://www.silentlambs.org/fitzwaterscan1.

DannyBear

Alan & Axel,

Doublespeak comes so natural to the average jw, they hardly recognize it when imbibing. If the body of elder's are in fact using the Bible as an 'inspired' director of thier choices, then why the need for a rubber stamp from the wtbs?

This 'rubber stamping' by the Service Desk, is in fact what provides the muscel backing up the appointment.

***JW will forget about this and go back to thinking that the "holy spirit" makes direct appointments. Again, I know how this works because this is how it has happened with several elders I've discussed this with over a period of years***

This is oh so true. One sure fire way to test the validity of this common assumption, is for any active jw male or female (not 'appointed' as an elder) to challenge, question, or otherwise show disrespect for the opinions, statements, or assertions of ANYONE so 'appointed'!

No question about it, they argue semantics, but in practice they hold to the firm conviction, that all elder's are directly appointed by 'spirit'.

Danny

33

Belching Gun on Fitzwater Case

by AlanF in

the following material is far more than a smoking gun -- it's a flash picture of a gun belching fire.

in connection with bill bowen's las vegas news conference today, bill released the following documents to the public: .

http://www.silentlambs.org/fitzwaterscan1.

DannyBear

Alan,

I know they made a big deal of the 'spirit appointed' claim back in the 60's, actually pulling Cong Servants at the time, back to Giliead School for a special indoctrination of these claims.

My brother-in-law came back from that school with graphs and charts, they depicted in graphic form just how the 'holy spirit' flowed and from whom to whom. I remember listening to him recount the experience, even as a neophyte 'servant', and saying to myself 'this is really hard to swallow'. But as any good jw is inclined to do, just accepted it as 'the truth'. I could tell my brother-in-law had some unstated reservations himself.

Damning evidence indeed.

Do you suppose, that guilty child molester's or any other serious law offender, who finds himself up for appointment as an elder or ms, uses this doctrine of 'spirit appointment' as an indication that Jehovah has forgiven him for his malfeasance? I bet it happens daily.

What better way to obsolve your conscience for any misconduct........even better than the Catholic confessional.

Danny

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

Artful,

On page 42 of Penton's Apocalypse Delayed under the subtitle of The New Covenant Schism he states in part:

"Consequently, several hundreds out of a total perhaps of 10,000 Bible Students seceeded."

This was in 1909 and the circumstance surrounded a dispute regarding the interpretation of the ransom sacrifice and to whom it applied.

Apparently what makes it so hard to define actual number's, is the almost unstructured manner the congregations were adminstered before Rutherford started his dictatorship.

Danny

edited to add: In 1927 Rutherford addressed a convention in Ontario Canada with over 15,000 in attendance.

Edited by - DannyBear on 12 January 2003 12:53:46

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

Minimus,

First it is common knowlege that Rutherford directly opposed Charles Taze Russell's legal will in his usurpation of the presidency. Copy of which can be found in the Wt shortly after his death in 1916

Second his actions as regards the expelling of the four director's, taking over the British Branch and siezing of funds, along with eye witness accounts, indicate that he acted in an unlawful fashion. Although we will never know for sure if a court of law would have agreed, since none of the offended parties filed for redress.

Danny

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

Refiner's,

Didn't mean to step on your toes. It just has become even clearer to me how there really is little difference in comparing Russell's writing's to those say of Freddie Franz. The nuances, particular's change, times and dates alway's in a state of flux, yet no matter what it all ends up bible babble, Russell was a master at it, so was Freddie.

Does it really matter what the specifics of doctrine are? Or is it the bold assertion's these men made and continue to make that makes this religion smell so bad.

Reading any of thier dogma is a total waste of time. When does the reader make the conscience decision to accept what they read as 'truth'..........only as long as the wtbs claims it, promotes it, and enforces it.

They are truly delusional.

Danny

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

Refiner's,

***dumping of Russells teachings occured from 1925 onward and , from what I have read, was complete by 1928***

On the contrary, much if not all of the current beliefs of modern jw's, stem directly back to Russell. Very little of his adventist views have been modified. He saw Christ's kingdom as heavenly, he justified the passing of 1874, 1878, even 1914 as proof of this doctrine.

Almost the entire dogma plus or minus a few dates, can be traced right back to Russell.

Danny

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

When judging the number's of 'Bible Students' in the period 1914 to early 20's it is interesting that not all member's of the congregation were required to report time spent in the preaching work.

Also by the time Russell died in 1916 over 10 million had seen his Photo Drama of Creation around the world. Somehow without 6 million door to door publisher's, Russell had managed to distribute/sell over 4,600,000 copies of his Divine Plan of the Ages by 1916 as well!!!

So there really is no way of calculating the exact number of those who were 'witnessing' during this period. It was not until later that the judge instituted 'the publisher's record card'..

Danny

36

"Bible Students" and 1919

by artful in

a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

DannyBear

Art,

Since Russell died in 1916 the period your question relates to, was a time of turmoil for the then known Bible Students.

Rutherford had pulled off a big corporate coup, by illegally dismissing several of the director's of wtbs Russell had himself appointed and commissioned to remain such after his death. Rutherford authoring several publications that the US government and other's dained as seditious, thus landing him and other's in jail.

This imprisonment offered the judge a martyer's pr opportunity. He milked it, to say the least. This one event helped to solidify the movement and drew sympathy from those who were quite upset about his (FR's) take over. Many left to start Bible Student groups, but the base of r&f now were primed for Rutherford's way.

Rutherford immediately changed the elected 'elder' arrangement in 'the companies' (congregations) to 'servants' appointed directly by the wtbs. In other words any vestiage of personal choice, exercise of individual conscience in matter's of bible interpretation, running of the individual congregations, was in one fell swoop taken away. The Judge now called all the shots.

While he sipped fine whiskey and beer, and wore his expensive silk shirts, the brother's and sister's were knocking on door's selling his Finished Mystery and other babbeling's.

When Russell died in 1916 the total number of Bible Students was in the mere 10's of thousands. By the 1920's it was in the 100's of thousands, well you know the rest.

James Penton's book Apocalype Delayed does a very good job describing these early days. Iam only about 1/3 of the way through it, but if you have not read it.....it is worth the price.

Danny

9

How time flies

by joelbear in

jw
friends

yikes, 25 years ago this month i became a regular pioneer for the first time.

all in hopes of going to bethel which i did in may of 25 years ago.. zounds, thats a long time.

scary to think about actually.. tick tock.

DannyBear

James,

*** My body was here but my attention was elsewhere; lost in thoughts about the past, or fantasy about the future; or lost in random mumblings and judgments and commentaries. ***

I like that. It does depict what most all of us do. Especially the "random mumblings and judgments and commentaries".......aint we got alot of those!

I have to work on cleaning out my garage today, so Iam going to keep this most excellent advice in mind, as I mumble about what pain in the ass this job is.

Who knows I may stumble across a long lost treasure, that will in fact make the exercise worth every bit of the moment in time.

Danny

82

Ky. Bill to Repeal Clergy "Silent Right"

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

newsday.com carries an interesting story with that title.

a few excerpts from the article will give you the gist.

"but democratic rep. susan westrom, a former therapist who worked with abused children felt the law should go furher.

DannyBear

Siegswife,

You said: ***My point is that I think God fearing men and women would rather be governed by a system designed to protect innocent children from pedophile predators rather than to offer a haven to those same criminals because of the possibility that someone might be falsely accused***

I now get the sense of what you were trying to get across. I fully agree.

A sad fact about any law's, is the fact that someone somewhere will fall victim to being falsely accused of breaking them. It is the nature of the beast.

The unwillingness of the wtbs to modify thier stand on the 'two witness', bible law in respects to child abuse, is proof positive that they do not, will not, exercise godly justice. For anyone to take such an unbending stance in these instances is imo a repudiation of anything resembling a God of Love. Love as described in the bible should be perfect. How could anyone claim that the exercise of this law is even close to perfection?

Danny