the avg jw when confronted with pass issues such as not going to college, setting up retirement plans while you are 23 for when you get 65, seeking a better paying job will often try to hide behind
"it was a personal decision".
while in one context that is true, there is one problem.
Hello James,
**** Those are the 2 choices that every jw who reads this post knows****
Even if they do not admit it.
Trouble with us (you/me) Jt is that we tried to be such 'good' little jw boy's. I now kinda envy the 'weak ones' who ignored all hype and went to school anyway!
Danny
let me start out by saying that i would like nothing better than to see the society totally disappear one day and lose its controlling grip upon its members.
this forum is probably one of the most frequented sites for doubting jws and lurkers so i think it is important to be as skilled at combating the witnesses as is possible.
not every argument made against someone or something is a good one.
Inquiry,
**** It has to. It's a strength and it's also a weakness. I think that's why what Bradley is saying here is quite important. By doing what it does, the WT maintains itself and it's appearance to the outside world as a credible organisation.****
I think your expanding Bradley's commentary further than required. I do agree that generalizing watchtower malfeasance is counter productive in some situations, but in the context of jwd, individuals are more inclined to reveal personal observations/experiences, having little to do with the corporate survival or public relations.
What you say is a fact of business life. But the WTBS is far more than a business empire/conglomerate, it is and proclaims itself to be, the vessel Jehovah god uses to instruct, nurture, protect, those who dedicate their lives to Jehovah, Jesus, and the Organization.
This fact alone sets the bar considerably higher than those managers at General Motors who are responsible for 'the corporate philosophy'.
So what you have postulated may be correct technically, but in the reality, peoples very hopes, dreams, aspirations, and spritual well being are all wrapped up in the package.
Danny
let me start out by saying that i would like nothing better than to see the society totally disappear one day and lose its controlling grip upon its members.
this forum is probably one of the most frequented sites for doubting jws and lurkers so i think it is important to be as skilled at combating the witnesses as is possible.
not every argument made against someone or something is a good one.
Lady Lee,
This was one of the best synopsis of the reason there is such a vacume of love within the org;
****By its own policies and "encouragement" for people to think of the org first, meetings first, service first, and people second they encourage this lack of love. People are second rate. Their individual needs are secondary to the WT needs. Got a problem? - go to more meetings! Not getting to meetings? - you are weak! Weddings funerals - the focus is on the org not on the people involved. Careing for the sick and elderly? widows and orphans? - let the dead bury their dead, let those who are deserving - do more, and if they can't it is a persona; failure
These kinds of organizational policies and teachings do not encorage an atmosphere of love.****
Consise and very directly points to the reason why so many jw's are depressed and guilt ridden.
If there is a God in heaven, who wants his creatures to be happy and fulfilled.........can he possibly be associated with a religion that so manipulates and controls every aspect of life?
Please do not even introduce me to him (the jw god), should be the response for those seeking a truly loving God.
Great stuff.
Danny
howcome the wts does not include personal testimonies in their meetings (i mean, ones that have not been edited by the writing department)?
oftentimes when i am preparing for an instructional course, i go looking for a sample completed form.
in order that my students are not led astray, i try and find the perfect sample.
Maverick,
Thought the analogy of an 'insurance company' was pretty good. It is exactly the feeling I remember as a jw. Millions of fellow policy holder's, all waiting to cash in after the big A.
jgnat,
When Rutherford took over the reins of the wtbs, he declared that 'creature worship' would cease. Or tobe more explicit the only creature within the ranks of jw to be worshiped, would be the Judge himself.
Believe me he was in every extent of the word worshiped. No one questioned his directives, he manuevered finances (Beth Sarim-San Diego) under the guise of biblical injunction. He lavished himself with finest in automobiles, clothes, food, wine (even violating 'ceaser's" law of prohabition). He authored 100's of manuscripts for publication of his interpretaions of the bible.
All the while chastising and demeaning any of 'the brothers/sisters' who did not turn over life and fortune to the wtbs.
His duplicity and outright hypocracy is never acknowledged by jw's, they simply pass it all off as Jehovah's working through him to accomplish the 'preaching work'.
Cults are very good at forgiving even the worst conduct of their leaders.......jws are no different.
Danny
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
Ng,
****You are welcome to speak up but it won't affect them in the slightest so why get in such a dither? ****
The observations made by jgnat and others here have apparently affected YOU. So your argument appears mute.
****As long as you have family 'in' why not respect their mentality and keep your arguments involved only with them. They deserve to know your true feelings or it's built on a false basis.****
Unfortunately direct communication with our relatives, involving most of what is discussed here, is only a fond hope. The reality, as Iam sure your aware, is that any self respecting, active jw (lifestyle, way, 'cult') is not allowed to even consider the notion of listening to an apostate.......LET ALONE an apostate of one's own flesh and blood.
So, heres the question. If we can't express our concerns to our relatives directly.....then why on earth are you so in a "dither" about us doing so among our jwd membership?
Danny
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
Northerngirl,
****It is not their concern to be acceptable by you or anyone else. If you don't agree with them why be concerned with them? If their beliefs don't jibe with yours, ignore them but why make a career out of dissing them?****
A fairly reasonable request. Yet please consider......
jgnat, myself, and many others here on jwd, have extended family still in the 'religion'. It is not so easy to just live and let live, when your own flesh and blood do not return the favor.
Danny
for the last 20 years of my association with the jws, i was, more or less, a hypocrite.
they taught things i didn't believe, but i went to the meetings and, by my presence there and by my "non-answers" i in essence supported something that i didn't believe.. it's a hard thing to say "i was a hypocrite.".
i was.. craig
Brummie makes a valid observation regarding labeling someone a hypocrite.
for the last 20 years of my association with the jws, i was, more or less, a hypocrite.
they taught things i didn't believe, but i went to the meetings and, by my presence there and by my "non-answers" i in essence supported something that i didn't believe.. it's a hard thing to say "i was a hypocrite.".
i was.. craig
Craig,
Edited to add: I appologize for posting this in this thread, thought I was on another.......getting old ya know.
Lots of history of this type of behaviour on ex-jw boards. In fact I think those early day's set the tone, or example for alot of those who continue to demean and attack.
Simon is in the process of changing the flow, endeavoring to get people who were schooled in the 'negative' to either abandon those tactics or quit.
I for one appreciate your taking a stand on this issue.
Danny
Ps Ever notice how those who continue to demean and destroy, use the same words, the same tactics others have used for years?
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
jgnat,
****only to be put out to pasture in their later years.****
Along with your above sentiments, how about folks like my own father who endured mob action in Ohio in the early 40's....his head was punched so often that in later life he developed Parkinson's disease......and died from it.
The tens of hundreds who have sacrificed life and fortune for the 'visions' of Russell, Rutherford, Franz et al.......someday, and I tend to think it coming quicker than we think, a rude awakening is facing all those still throwing their lives away on the alter of the Watchtower.
Some of my fondest memories growing up, were listening to the experiences of those passionate faithful witnesses, who put their lives on the line. Yet all for nothing.....sad is not the word. It is just plain misery to contemplate the extent of damage this religious dogma has caused.
Danny
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
jgnat,
****This religion deserves a good kick in the pants, to wake them up to the genuine needs of their flock.****
They are paying a very high price for their laxity. The jw youth of today are turning toward education vs pioneering, living dual lives, often bolstered with prozac.
Genuine needs of the flock are all covered in the District Convention programs.....don't ya know. Haranging reminder's of the evilness of the internet, avoiding independent thinking, really really helps the 'flock' to overcome depression, anxiety, guilt, and raises them up to be stalwart pillars of strength! HuhHuh
****The WTBTS would be so much tolerable if they would admit that they were no better than any other religion. Loopy perhaps, but no better than other churches. JW relatives would be so much more tolerable if they admitted that they are no better than the rest of us. Loopy perhaps, but loveable just the same.****
Here, here.
An excellent summation of the sad legacy this once very passionate religion, is now facing.
Enjoyed your comments.
Danny
