in another thread, there is a discussion about young people leaving the jws at a rate of something like 88%.
we see the rules given to the sheep for raising their children and we shake our heads saying, dont they get it?
what is wrong with the org that it cant see how they are treating the youth?
Lisa,
Very enlightening. Great post. Thank you.
I was raised in the borg, and "stayed in" through my teenage years and on for many years. Tried so hard to be a "good boy/good man" ie a "company man". Boy Oh boy....... Your post sort of hits me right between the eyes. I hardly ever like to think about my youth 'cause it hurts so much. Your post provides interesting insights. I'm going to try and find the book you cite.
DB
this past weekend, one of the few remaining jw relatives who will still discuss jw stuff with me told me about his recently attending a home bible study being conducted by an elder.
evidently, the study had been told or had picked up some info about the 1975 fiasco.
the elder totally denied that the society had stated or even led people to believe that armageddon would occur in 1975, and he naturally blamed some individual jws for misinterpreting the society's materials.
There wasn't much "stockpiling" that I was aware of, but plenty of other "1975 Is Coming" behaviors.
And there sure as shootin' was LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of talk about 1975. And yes, the Society absolutely DID fan the flames of discussion about this. CO's and DO's and local elders did as well. Make no mistake about it. Like many others around here, I WAS THERE. It is amazing to me to repeatedly hear the white-wash baloney.
I think one of Randy's websites has an excellent listing of all the "1975" statements published. It debunks any attempt by apologists for the Society to paint the 1975 thing as simply a case of the "flock" getting carried away with itself.
Individuals and families put off/postponed important stuff 'cause "the end is near", as has been mentioned. I know of quite a number of unsound business and financial decisions that folks foolishly made with 1975 in mind.
I recall some elders returning from KM school (a two-week course at that time) and pumping up the 1975 expectations with stuff "right from the horse's mouth".
So, did I mention this subject really gets me going??? :)))
what are the most stupid jw rule?.
what do you consider to be the most stupid rules or tradition of the jw lives?
im thinking about any kind of rule or regulative that only has one answer to the questions why:.
Thirdson: Your story about the slippers busts me up. I can easily picture such an absurdity.
a few weeks ago in the chat room, i learned that jw's didn't always mark their brothers and sisters.
i was baptized in 1994 and i believe that "marking" was done as early as that.
was this "marking" new light ?
Yes, the "marking" thing has been around for a long time. Mid-70's, I think.
I recollect that the Flock book requires "repeated warnings" to the offender(s) BEFORE a marking talk is given. In other words the "official" party line here is to try and get the "offensive" behavior changed behind the scenes first, using marking as a last resort. This procedure was/is not always followed.
As others have said here, no name(s) are mentioned, but the "objectionable" behavior is zeroed in on sufficiently so that you (in cong) would know who to apply it to if you saw such.
Yet another "avenue/means of control" over people's lives, in most cases going far beyond any reasonable scriptural basis.
it's been a long, long time ago, but i remember as a youngster attending the meetings and there was a huge bulletin board next to the platform and every month they would post the field service statistics on it, i.e.
hours, return visits (back calls), mags, books, etc.. i was wondering if this was common practice in all kingdom halls back in the 50's and 60's and if so, when did the practice end?
given nathan knorr's interest in marketing the jw teachings and putting a guilt trip on those who didn't perform up to snuff this recollection makes sense.
dy, I remember.
I too, was a youngster when I last saw this, my recollection is that this board was called "Quotas", then changed to "Goals", then elminated entirely. I think it was trotted out during the Service Meeting only, but maybe I'm wrong on this. I don't immediately recall when it was eliminated.
Yeah, a lot like something you'd see at a sales meeting, now that I think about it.
hi all of you wild and funky people,.
by way of introduction, some two decades ago, i left the jehovahs witness ideology at considerable personal costs, from there went forward to get a quality college education and im now a research scientist at an american university.
a few months ago i, along with a team of international scientists, published a scientific paper that addressed a neural-behavioral discovery i had made many years ago that involved jehovahs witnesses.
Er, what a brilliant analysis....the implications are staggering....
Perhaps your research indicates why, as a young boy, whenever I went to a meeting with a magnet in my pocket, I had an almost uncontrollable urge to be a Pioneer....
does anybody have a fairly accurate number of those that are dfed or daed, that have been reinstated?
i'm just curious as to how many that leave actually go back.
i was always led to believe from my parents that i was one of [italics]the few[/italics] that hasn't come back.
I don't have accurate figures, but I'd say probably 75% of DF'd wind up reinstated. Don't have many recollection of DA's, but can't immediately recall ANY who achieved "reinstatement".
I think the relatively high number of DF:reinstatements are a comment on the hold of the borg. I recall a WT article some years back that proported to quote DF'd folks as sort of hanging their heads over their DF'ng: Like "I got DF'd 'cause I couldn't be a good enough Christian", etc. etc. Subtle but effective message. Nothing like laying on the GUILT. You (DF'd folks) are letting the "bros" down, making us look bad (dragging org name in dirt) etc. etc.
Family "pressure" was/is a factor as well, of course.
My 2 cents worth.
"scientology listed the following 'authorities' for references to back up today's pony show.
dr. david little, professor of the practice in religion, ethnicity and international conflict, harvard university; .
massimo introvigne, censur, director center for studies on new religions, torino italy; .
If memory serves, Judah is Albert Schroeder's son. Interesting, Kent.
disassociating yourself slowly or quickly is a matter of perspective; think about it: you lose either way, i.e.
the witnesses will treat you like you've become part of the "bodysnatchers" of the world and no matter how you rationalize it, there is no honorable way out in the eyes of the witnesses.. i was df'd about 1.5 years ago (as they said that i left the organization so it was entirely my fault, but little do they know that their organization left me, as i appealed the gb's decision), and the sudden break-off of family and friends in the truth is always devastating to say the least - it's an emotional explosion which in your wildest dreams would normally never ever happen....i can now understand what death means, at least in the beginning....yes i was dead though living - even though when i went back to the meetings afterwards, i could feel the lonely emptiness, the non-existence of myself.
yet when by accident i would be gazing straight into the eyes of one of my (former) friends, he would just stare past me as if i didn't exist at all even though i attempted to smile at him in indicating respect to him....how convenient for them to ignore a fellow friend and instead make me feel like the lowest person on earth - but then..of course they were taught to respond in this manner to anyone who is df'd.... then i though to myself...what would happen when eventually i would be re-instated: yes, then after the announcement most would want to see me at the end of the meeting all happy and oh so loving and wanting to be my best friend all over again - in a heartbeat they'll change from zombies to angelic like mortal creatures of love.... for this very reason i cannot return to the meetings in the hope of wanting to be re-instated and have this hypocrisy again heaped upon me like tentacles.
Richie,
I, too can readily identify with the feelings you've expressed. Even though I wasn't DF'd (I simply walked away), the result is very much the same. My heart goes out to you and I feel moved to give you a pat on the back and a "hang in there":
Someone earlier observed that witness "love" is of the conditional kind. That is so very true, and yet it is not always obvious to us right away, it takes a while for the point to "sink in".
I think others here have made this point in so many words, but remember: your worth as a person is NOT dependent on the favorable opinion of a group of people you were once very close to. This is, perhaps something to remind yourself of FREQUENTLY. Personally, I am still wrestling with this issue, but it gets better with time, and with slowly aquiring a new set of friends who accept you for who you are and whose "love" of you is not conditional, or subject to change based on the edicts of an organization.
"Morality is doing what is right no matter what you're told. Religion is doing what you're told no matter what is right."
i don't mean in general, i mean for exjw's... is there a noticable advantage to pairing with someone with the same background?
i'd like to read your thoughts and experiences on this subject.. i've been romantically involved few times, since "the light got brighter" for me about the organization, with people who didn't know anything about jw's before meeting me.
one of them viewed my exjw activity as a bit obsessive but okay as long as she got to obsess on her favorite obesssions, too.
I've never dated another X-JW (yet, that is, mostly from lack of opportunity in my part of Calif), but the idea of being attracted to someone who also understands the "mindset" of an X-JW is very appealing. Ahhhh, the stuff that wouldn't have to be explained. Ahhh, the thought of not worrying about coming accross as weird, etc.
As others here have related, there's a wide range of reactions to mentioning a JW past, from a sort of "so what?", to a gasp of shock. Nobody, but nobody understands what it's like to be an X-JW like another X-JW.
But, am I the only person who's a little bit concerned that I'd fall in love with an X-JW, who might then (god forbid) GO BACK to the dubs??? It ("returning") happens!
