most of us have experienced the frustration of trying to convince a friend or relative that the wts is not what it claims: an organisation backed by 'god'.. of course, it is very difficult to prove a negative and a real die-hard believer will explain-away any evidence of wrongdoing by the org.
as they are trained to do so well.. i have found it good to reverse the question and ask them:.
"what would the wts have to do to convince you that it wasn't god's organisation?".
Simon,
I think it's a great question to ask. Can't wait to "get out in [my apostate] Service" to give it a try.
Gee, this is sort of like a Service Meeting part :)))
I, too am frustrated by the "mental wall" of witnesses, but then I, too was as blind as could be when I was one. I recall just a few times relatives/business acquaintenaces trying to get through to me, but their approach always made me feel they were trying to show how stupid I was, etc. Which is a real turn-off of course.
---Dan
one of the most amazing and disturbing events in human history, has got to be the time of the black plague.
in which people were dying so fast and in such numbers that the authorities were unable to bury them fast enough.
disease in general has been a terrible part of the human race, even today.
Dragon,
Thought-provoking post. I liked your points, especially the part about us not having immunity....never thought about that way before.
I've been reading through a book that I think is relevant to mention here, the title is something like "True Believers-The background on mass movements" (this isn't the exact title, but it's close). The author sets out compelling arguments about how folks (ie you and me and the rest around here) can get sucked into something like the Watchtower organization. Interesting parallels between our experiences and say, the Nazi's, Bolsheviks, Mussolini's group, and so on.
Have you noticed how many "extended" family groups "get the truth" (ie get sucked in)??? The role of family "pressure" if you will has got to be significant. And I've noticed how few in some cultures get sucked in (like in Pakistan and PRC (mainland China). The Watchtower message must sound defective to them.
I don't think we (ex-dubs) as a group are inordinately defective. Most of us are caring, thoughtful, sincere people who genuinely were/are trying to do the "right thing", but as you point out, got sucked into the "wrong" thing.
Anyway, thanks for the interesting and thought-provoking post.
---Dan
in january of this year, a prominent elder resigned because he was criticized for continuing to talk to an inactive couple, who had been very close friends.
this couple are being gossiped about, as being apostates, although no action has been taken, and no announcement.
he didn't like the scrutiny on himself and his wife, and thought they were wrong to talk to him about this issue, so he resigned.
How sad, but how typical.
Silly/stupid things happen when common sense gets trampled on in the name of protecting the "group".
---Dan
just wondering about some of the profile pics...i think its nice to know a bit about the person you want us see, or the person you don't want us to see.
so what were you thinking when the pic was taken, how long ago, and where were you?
mine was taken last month, just after my 36th birthday.
A kindly feller from the City snapped my picture whilst I was out a huntin' for vittles.
And about that there thing up top: I didn't kilt it, It were already demised when I happen'd upon it. It's mighty comfortable if you can stand the smell.
---Dan (as in Daniel, as in Dan'l Boone, or Fess Parker if you prefer)
PS: There sure be a whole wagon-load of cuties on this here website, goin' by the pictures.
Edited by - dannyboy on 18 September 2002 23:23:55
i thought i'd hit it several times before...as i have been thru the divorce over the past couple of years...lost all my so-called friends...lost my belief in what i thought was the "truth"....and now my own loving daughter, being the good little dub she is has told me she doesn't want me to walk her down the aisle at her wedding.
she told me today at lunch.
i almost threw up.
Bonezz,
You're a good man, buddy. Hang in there.
The responses above that are thoughtful, loving, kind, sensitive, and feeling really show that there's lots of folks around here who really do care, who "get it", and can identify with the type of pain you're feeling. Folks that know only too well how rotten things like this can happen. Even though you've lost a lot of "friends" in your break with the dubs, you're not alone by any means.
As others have suggested, your daughter may "come around" one day. My two cents: There seems little benefit in doing anything today/now that would make that future change of heart more difficult for her.
Your friend, Dan
i was raised in redding california and would love to meet others that live or lived there.
i was there from 1968 until 1982 and then moved to the burney california area.
love to all and blessed be, .
Hi Mulan,
Yep, I remember Benbrooks, and JR as well.
Jelly, how far south of Chico are you??
---Dan
i don't see why we should allow such blatant discrimination on the board as to allow a thread "for women" only, asking their favorite men's cologne.
so guys and blokes, so that we can participate, how's about declaring before these ladies your favorite cologne/after shave?
mine's tuscany.
UncleBruce,
Such head pieces are quite common here in the People's Republic Of Northern California, at least amongst the lower classes.
--DannyBoy (NOT DannyBear, BTW)
i don't see why we should allow such blatant discrimination on the board as to allow a thread "for women" only, asking their favorite men's cologne.
so guys and blokes, so that we can participate, how's about declaring before these ladies your favorite cologne/after shave?
mine's tuscany.
Calvin Klein cologne
--Dan
i just read with interest an article entitled yoga - just an exercise or something more?
in the august 1, 2002 watchtower.. i know that growing up a witness i had always been told that yoga was related to spiritism and the occult.
however, with the popularity of yoga among the mainstream in recent years as a means to keep fit not as a means to find spiritual enlightment, i thought the society may have lightened up a bit.
Bonezz,
Ok, fess up: You used to be on the writing staff, right?
Too funny.
---Dan
i have a conondrum that exists in the lowell, ma.
congregation.
i left the borg 12 years ago.
Marco,
The dubs make a distinction between an "unscriptural" and "scriptural" Divorce, the second type permitting remarriage without congregation sanction. So, in their world, a wife could get a legal divorce (but without "scriptural" reasons), then upon her former husband's getting remarried, establish her "freedom" to remarry, ie she would be "scripturally" free to do so.
I sympathize with you, re: being tagged with the onerous "adulterer". Hopefully your kids will see the big picture, if not now, then as they grow older.
---Dan
