i am in a situation where my ex-wife left me.
i had survellaince done on her place by two members of my family.
this was done over a several month time frame.
Scrub,
First, welcome to the board.
If memory serves, the relevant statement in the Flock book makes the point that evidence of adultery can be "strong circumstancial evidence, such as staying all night..." This allows for the "elders" to accept other "proofs", depending on circumstances, and does not automatically rule out the situation you mention, but most "elders" would take the safe approach here, waiting for more dramatic proof of adultery.
---Dan
Within a 125 miles or so, there's been murder, rape, embezzelment, and what might be termed the more "usual" sins of dumping a marriage mate and taking off with another's.
Many of the above are common knowledge.
When I first became an appointed elder, I was totally blown away by the stuff that was going on that WAS NOT KNOWN or NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE, but that were major scandals that had not managed to leak out.
I think the fact that Witness congregations have seen such/much scandal, proves that despite what Witnesses think about themselves as being "better" and "above" the average human, they are in fact much like everyone else, perhaps even MORE INCLINED to some kinds of evil (no hell-fire to make them pause, etc.), there's not a surprise that a percentage of Witnesses wind up committing crimes, including disgusting and perverted ones.
My two cents.
Dan
a thread that was posted recently was talking about the audiocassette and it brought back memories of how i became a company man or as we used to say ?a society man?
due to those cassettes
o yes-- the reading of the mags- well when i was at bethel there was a reading test given to all ms who wanted to sign up for the opportunity to be a audiocassette reader/ dramas
JT,
Thanks for the great post.
---Dan
it seems to me, many people become jw?s after a major event in their lives.
perhaps it is the death of a loved-one, such as a father, mother, child, wife, or husband.
on the other hand, it?s also my observation that a "major-event" often causes an active jw to rethink what they are doing with their life, whether they are really in the "truth," as jw?s call it.
Well, seriously...yes, a major life event triggered my leaving.
My take on this is that for me at least, the only way I could have "woke up and smelled the coffee" to borrow a phrase was to have things happen in my life (outside of my direct control) that allowed me to see deeper into that life than I'd ever looked....ever.
I think others here are expressing/have had the same experience.
Getting one's brain un-clogged from years and years of subtle "conditioning" that is in reality "brain-washing" is not easily accomplished or even started (again, my experience). I was a true, true, dyed-in-the-wool, bought-the-whole-program-hook-line-and-sinker, faithful, dedicated, devoted, zealous Witness since my early youth.
Today I'm very glad that I sort of got "knocked about", and woke up to REALITY.
I admire the many who post here, who saw REALITY sort of "on their own", or who just went along with things (knowing and seeing various problems) so you could continue to speak with relatives, etc., I just feel strongly that *I* would never have "seen the light" were it not for the afore-mentioned (but not specifically detailed to you) "major life event....
---Dan
my jw buddy just called me with some "fun" news.
they had the co last week, and of course dave and i were part of the elder's meeting agenda.
my friend has just had a conversation with one of the elders, who told her about it because it involved her.
Mulan,
ROFLMAO.
---Dan
what does it take to become a circuit overseer?.
the watchtower bible track society relies very heavily upon these men to make sure that they have a tight grip on each congregation.. the structure for control that the wt.
has in place needs it's eyes and ears to find out whether or not a congregation is following all the rules that the wt has laid out for it.
Frankie: Gotcha. I now realize my remarks were directed to some of the comments on your thread, not to the point of your title. Sorry for contributing to thread shift/creep.
Blondie: My experiences in the Organization are getting a bit dated now, but up until my exit time I didn't see the CO turnover in my state such as you describe, but I don't doubt it. My area had mostly grey-haired CO's, of the high-seniority type.
---Dan
what does it take to become a circuit overseer?.
the watchtower bible track society relies very heavily upon these men to make sure that they have a tight grip on each congregation.. the structure for control that the wt.
has in place needs it's eyes and ears to find out whether or not a congregation is following all the rules that the wt has laid out for it.
Well, I guess I have a somewhat different take on all of this:
Over the years I've known more CO's and DO's than many (perhaps most) around here, and yes, some were/are arrogant, picky, self-righteous know-it-alls. But I have to conclude that their collective attitude is mostly how they were trained, what they were allowed to get away with. Perhaps some of us forget that they, too get hammered-on by the Society to toe the party line and are held to account somewhat for Circuit/District "results".
Yes, not all men in this category were/are like that, somehow they managed to keep a healthy portion of their humanity intact. But most of those that didn't, I repeat, were doing what they thought was right and proper and how they were trained. That they were doing/saying unreasonable things has to be understood in this context, IMO.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see most of these men as casualties of a thorougly rotten system, just like me, just like many/most around here.
I'm not denying others' experiences, just relating my take on things, for what it's worth.
---Dan
it's not easy trying to be a borg member.... and the transition to living in the real world is not an easy journey either ... .
soooo ... really ... it is all about choice ... because the transition to living is do-able!!!
earlier this week monkeyprincess wrote about talking to her mom about conditional and unconditional love.... she responded with "i love all you girls too, but not unconditionally".
Hi Estee,
I agree with the good points others have posted, Witnesses would never be encouraged from the platform to display "conditional love", but that is the path they're teaching.
Like so many concepts that Witnesses become indoctrinated with, "loaded language" is used to convey a course that would otherwise raise questions in a normal, thinking person. The "theocratic" thing to do or say gets around all sorts of obstacles, like kindness, love, family ties, common sense, and clear thinking.
You may remember that we have in common our offspring shunning us for no reasonable cause.
So please accept a hug from me, ((((( Estee ))))), and a sincere wish that things with them will change for you for the better.
---Dan
a few times a year, the society really promotes pioneering.they will devote service meeting talks and parts stressing the need to regular or auxiliary pioneer.
at the assemblies and at the district convention, they will try to shame you into pioneering.
they give examples of 85 year old parapalegics that "made room in their lives" to pioneer.
Oh yes, pressure that varied with the season you might say.
Like many (but not all of you) I never thought of it as "pressure", more like I thought of it as yet another indication of how crummy a witness I was, that I couldn't Aux Pioneer more than once a year. I managed to push down any thoughts to the contrary, thinking "The Organization Knows Best", and if they're always harping on us to do more, must have God's blessing, etc. etc.
More than one CO would make the point in private that Aux or Regular pioneering was a matter of faith, not circumstances. Now THAT comment used to make my blood boil, and seemed at odds with what I was reading in the literature. So many times, though the Society would have the CO's and DO's put out a "harder line" in private or at elder's meetings than what was published, which I view now as something like what Watergate-figure John Dean might call "Plausible Deniability"........
So I struggled along for years, doin' it once a year, and feeling euphoric for a while, thinking I'd really pleased God....then someone would suggest that maybe if I tried harder, I could do it more each year, and the 'ol guilt stuff would kick in.
---Dan
this afternoon i received an e-mail from my server provider that my site,
http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org
, was hacked.
Rado,
Glad you're back up and runnin' ...
Best wishes, Dan
