Posts by Arthur

22

This is how messed up it was...

by themonster123 in

jw
friends

i've just been thinking about jwd and how messed it up it is how the witnesses twisted things in my mind so i totally got mind-warped....what am i talking about, you ask?

well, whenever someone has a quote on here from watchtower literature from years past (like from the 1970s or 1960s etc) proving that witnesses have taught/do teach this or that in the past, i automatically discredit that quote necause how i was taught as a witness was that whole new light thing-meaning...... "oh, well, things have changed-our teachings have changed, we no longer believe or teach this, this, and that anymore,"- i'm so brainwashed that when i read old quotes on here where people prove to say that witnesses taught this or that, it's like i kind of go "oh well that quote doesnt' matter," but in reality.......... jws should take responsibility for everything they've taught!!!

and not just keep saying, "well, that was then-this is now.. ...i mean, from an outsider's view point, they would say "oh, so witnesses teach this?

Arthur

It's incredible how powerful the concept of "new light" and "current understanding" is in the minds of a JW. There is nothing in the Scriptures that substantiates this phenomenon of changing teachings. The WTS's application of the text in Proverbs chapter 4 is a shameless example of twisting Scriptures to fit organizational ideology. Even if one attempted to apply Jesus' words regarding the Faithful Slave to a group of people; they would have to admit that the Watchtower's history of changing teachings and discarded predictions does not fit the description of a Slave that is discreet.

The Apostle Paul had repeatedly warned Christians not to become slaves of men, and not to allow oneself to be "tossed about by every wind of changing teaching". Only a thoroughly indoctrinated person could overlook all of these clear Scriptural teachings.

6

do you believe

by Ronnie38 in

jw
friends

do you believe that the governing body, or more appropriately, the governing body's assistant 'spies' view this site?.

if they do watch the site, i wonder if they have learned anything??

lol.

Arthur

There is no doubt that the internet is chipping away at the Watchtower's credibility. The WTS cannot keep any secrets anymore. I have no doubt that the internet has increased the rate of people leaving the organization. One example is the UN / NGO scandal.

I don't think that anyone outside the UK would have ever known about the UN / NGO scandal without the internet. This one scandal alone has caused a lot of people to leave the organization.

Another thing that the internet has done is make Raymond Franz's books that much more well known. There are so many Witnesses who came into the organization after 1980 that had never even heard of Ray Franz. With the proliferation of the internet, his books are constantly being discussed and promoted.

The Watchtower Society is very well aware of all of this. At this year's upcomming District Convention; one of the talks is going to be entitled: "Do Not Follow False Stories". I am sure that this is a knee-jerk response to all of the Witnesses finding out about the UN scandal, the news stories involving Silent Lambs, as well as Ray Franz's books.

35

When you were in field service....

by lavendar in

did you ever have anyone, at the door, say something to you that created a seed of doubt in your mind about the wts?

something at all that started you thinking "maybe i'm really not in the truth".

i would be interested in hearing about that.. thanks,.

Arthur

Ironically, it was never anything that a householder said that caused me to doubt; but it was things the Society said that caused me to doubt. I began to notice most of these contradictions when I was a Regular Pioneer. Case in point:

One of the talking points that has often been printed in the Kingdom Ministry is to tell the householder that we are just going door-to-door and encouraging people to read the Bible more. On the surface, this sounds nice. But, I realized that it was at the very least, intellectually dishonest. This is because the Society has repeatedly stated in Watchtower artcles that personal, independent Bible reading alone will not lead a person to obtaining an accurate knowledge of the Bible - that they must come to the organization to genuinely benefit.

Therefore, how is it that we could go door-to-door and encourage people to spend time in a worthless pursuit? How could we encourage them to do something that could possibly mislead them into "false doctrines"? This was just one example.

I realized that we as Witnesses were trained to recite many cliches, platitudes, and talking points which were designed to make us appear reasonable and moderate. I realized that there were deffinately bait and switch tactics being used. It disturbed me deeply.

4

Lookin for letter by Carl Olof Jonsson

by cultswatter in

the following is from tom cabeen's biography.

http://www.xjw.com/cabeen.html.

i began to make inquiries of various trusted friends in "high places" in the organization to find out what was going on.

Arthur

Let me correct what I wrote above:

I double checked my copy of The Gentile Times Reconsidered (fourth edition). There aren't any copies of correspondence in the Apendix, but there is one copy of a letter Jonsson received from the Society that is in the Introduction to the book.

Jonsson does however describe in detail the process of correspondence that he had with the Watchtower headquarters as well as his branch. Raymond Franz also briefly discusses Carl Olof Jonsson in his book Crisis of Conscience.

4

Lookin for letter by Carl Olof Jonsson

by cultswatter in

the following is from tom cabeen's biography.

http://www.xjw.com/cabeen.html.

i began to make inquiries of various trusted friends in "high places" in the organization to find out what was going on.

Arthur

When Tom Cabeen refers to the "letter", he is refering to the thesis which Jonsson wrote. You can find everything that Jonsson wrote in his book The Gentile Times Reconsidered. In the Apendix Section, he provides copies of his correspondence to the headquarters, as well as to his respective branch office.

19

Crazy things you were "forced" to do in the Borg

by RR in

jw
friends

were you ever told to do things that had no bearing on the scriptures or even policies of the watchtower?.

we had one co who upon inspection insisted that the body of elders and servants be cleaven shaven, cut their hair and remove their sideburns.. i use to have a patch of hair under my bottom lip.

the co pointing to it asked, "what's that?

Arthur

When I was a Ministerial Servant, we had a Presiding Overseer who was a dictitorial control freak. He viewed the congregation as a company, and himself as the CEO. He instituted a new congregation rule that no announcement could be made from the platform without his prior approval. He actually made an announcement checklist sheet on his computer that we had to use; and then bring it to him before the meeting for his approval. This proved to be quite impractical, as any former Elder or MS might realize. Eventually, several people bucked him on this, and he backed down. But this was just one small example his Pharisee-like style of micromanagement. Most in the congregation couldn't stand him, and he eventually left for greener pastures.

15

Might this explain why it's hard for older Witnesses to question the truth?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

have you heard of that famous book the tipping point by malcolm gladwell?

well i thought i would have a go at his more recent book called blink which is about subconscious split-second decisions.

generally i would say it is an overrated if entertainingly written book.

Arthur

I once read an illustration that someone used (I believe on this forum) of a gambling casino. One can walk in and watch people sitting at a slot machine, continuing to put in quarter after quarter. They cannot bring themself to walk away and quit because they have already put in so much money. They are obsessed with the "big payout" that is sure to come. So, they just sit there and put it money until they completely run out.

I think that so many older ones have put in so much time and effort, that they just can't think of walking away now. They are sure that the "big payout" (i.e. paradise earth) will surely come. If they just keep going; they will eventually be rewarded. So, they continue going until they eventually run out of quarters (i.e. they die).

38

Allow me to introduce myself

by RollerDave in

jw
friends

i was raised among the witnesses and left in my early 30's due to a mixture of doctrinal disputes and social isolation.

my mother and both of my sisters remain within the organization.

i also have two brothers, one df'd, one who never quite caught the watchtower bug.. my road within the organization was a rocky one that eventually lead to a place where i found myself socially isolated within the congregation as a person simply unfit for fellowship with proper, upright, theocratic people who must cut off all 'worldy' association, suffer the ensueing isolation, and eat humble pie until such a time as they determined i was 'spiritual minded' enough for them to associate with.. baptism was held up as my expected goal, but despite trying, i was never quite good enough for them.

Arthur

Welcome Roller Dave!

Has anyone told you that you look like the comedian John Pinette?

29

reasoning

by BR25 in

i read most of the posts on here and i was just trying to get an understanding on certain topics.

i read some peoples material and why they dont believe in the jw faith.

i understand that some people left the jw faith and some people on here may never have been jws or believed in it, so i understand why you post and give info back and forth, but i have trouble understanding some of the disfellowshipped ones on here.

Arthur

Most of you dont know what is said on here, what scriptures or info is on here, but when you find out, your posts turn into I am glad I am out, I always knew that it was a false religion, and so forth. This is total BS in my opinion, most of you probably dont know or think these things till you come on here, and some of you would never come on here if you did nothing wrong and you know it.

I would be inclined to cut these people some slack. Personally, I am not DF'd but have corresponded with many of them on this site. In my 30 years as a JW, I have observed that the legalistic atmosphere within the organization has prevented many JWs from developing a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ. JWs have more of a Watchtower trained conscience than they do a Bible trained conscience. The organization's placing itself in the role of mediator as well as enforcing a treadmill of "works", and countless rules and policies has prevented many JWs from developing a love for goodness and Christian conduct that was able to flourish in the first century.

This does not release individual JWs from personal accountability. But, there is no doubt that the organization has inculcated a very twisted concept of Christianity and God into people which has hindered them from becoming truly spiritual people. For this; the organizational leadership bears a great deal of responsibility.

I really don't think that it matters why a person was driven to this site. Often, a person who was disfellowshipped for fornication for example; is able to come here and discover information which helps them to see where their devotion to an organization and a body of men was seriously in error. Often, they are able to put many pieces of the puzzle together that can help them to actually redevelop a personal realationship with God and His son Jesus Christ. I have observed that many former JWs who had been DFd for wrongdoing are often helped into developing a much deeper relationship with God and a Bible trained conscience that was not possible in the Watchtower organization. Had they never visited this site, they may have never discovered the resources to help them onto that path.

I don't give a rip if a person was disfellowshipped for rejecting the 1914 doctrine; or for having gang-bangs with midget circus clowns. If they come here, they can surely be helped. They can find the tools and resources to recover and move on from the baggage that they carry from a cultic religion.

I seriously doubt that getting up on a soap box and talking down to them will make them bow their heads and say "oh, yes you're right; I was wrong". More often, it will turn into a thread where arguments errupt. I would say that it is best just to let these individuals vent; while helping them where we can. Very often, they will see their misteps through time and personal reflection. If not, that is on them.

From my time on this forum; there is one thing that I have seen over and over. Threads which attempt to "wag the finger" at various posters or groups of posters just doesn't fly. As graftifying as it might seem, it just doesn't work here. Posters who indulge in moralistic speeches which marginalize various posters usually don't last long on this forum. Discussions are great. But, attempts to somehow reform others on the forum will result in nothing but frustration.

34

Does Goofy Speculation of Prophecy by the WTBS reason to leave?

by Mad in

many leave because of it- yet isn't the truth and the wtbs seperate entities?.

the mad jw.

Arthur

Do you know of any group that has a clear understanding of the prophecies?

Typical Watchtower talking-point.

The WTS or the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" has hardly demonstrated a clear grasp of Bible prophecy and it's outworkings.

Case in point: The major "prophetic" teachings that were promoted by Russell and Rutheford are now "old light". Not only that, but these works are filled with so much moronic nonsense, that they are not even stocked in Kingdom Hall libraries. When a group of men appoint themselves as "Jehovah's channel of communication" to mankind while demanding that their fellow Christians give them unwavering obedience, they better have a track record to prove it. What has the Watchtower demonstrated? A scrap heap of failed predictions, and discarded teachings. This is hardly the characteristic of a Slave that is faithful and "discreet".

Rutheford's diatribes against religion, the "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" sales slogan, and the Watchtower organization placing itself into the role of mediator is clearl a "new gospel" which the apostle Paul warned Christians to avoid. When Rutheford "made an ass of himself" as he put it, he not only wounded his fragile ego; but he damaged the credibitlity of the Bible itself. This is hardly the behavior of a "Faithful and Discreet Slave".

Oh, and by the way, where is the King of the North these days? Perhaps more "new light" will replace the "old light" on this King of the North quandary. Changing prophetic pronouncements like light bulbs is hardly a characteristic of a organization which truly has God's spirit.