Posts by Arthur

60

Are You Afraid That Armageddon Is Going To Come Since Leaving "The Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'm not but i bet that there are some that quiety worry about it.....what about you?

?

Arthur

Perhaps the most revealing thing to me about 9/11 was how scared my seemingly devout JW mother seemed as we watched those events unfold on worldwide TV. She paced the floor, endlessly wringing her hands, muttering 'the End is here, the End is here,' ad nauseam.

Thanks for sharing this. This is part of the point that I like to make. I don't think JWs really comprehend what they are praying for. Just think back to 9/11 - at the WTC in New York. That was an event that happened within the small area of a couple of city blocks and killed aprox. 3,000 souls. Look at what a horrifying thing it was to see this unfold on TV ( esp. people leaping to their deaths) Were any Witnesses delighted over this? No. Yet, they long to see and even pray for the event that will be millions of times bigger than this (in terms of death and destruction). They even talk about how they will sing, and cheer after it's done; just like the the Israelites did at the Red Sea.

So, after this JW version of Armageddon happens, you will have J-dubs dancing around and cheering while the corpses of five year-old kids lay just a few feet away? That's grand.

The truth is, I still struggle with the fears of Armageddon. Thirty years of indoctrination does not die quickly. At this point, I don't know what my future holds. But there's something that I do know for sure. I would rather die from the hands of God than to be one of those sociopathic and hearless souls who would celebrate the mass slaughter of their fellow man.

21

Are JW's cold people?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

in all the years i attended meetings, i don't recall seeing anyone kiss anyone there....... all i saw were handshakes.. not even any hugs.. i thought of this a few days ago, when my cousin came over to visit my old parents, and when he left, he gave a warm handshake and slight hug to my dad and hugged and kissed my mom on each cheek.. you don't see this at the kh.

Arthur

I think part of this is the Witnesses social conditioning, and part of it is cultural. One thing that I learned from others who lived abroad, is that some other countries like Japan and other places, it is very taboo to hug a sister for any reasons. I saw a wide variation in the forms of affection that people gave. I noticed that some people are just more affectionate than others.

I think that a huge factor is that most Witnesses don't believe in close plutonic friendships between the opposite sexes. I have noticed amoung many of the "worldly" people that I know, that men and women can hug and kiss each other on the cheek routinely without even thinking about it. I know many men and women friends who will peck each other on the lips without meaning anything romantic, as if it's nothing. To them, there is nothing abnormal about it. This was somewhat of a culture shock to me, as I had never seen Witnesses do this sort of thing. But, I am learning to be more open and affectionate with others, which I think is really nice.

66

Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo in

jw
friends

i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

Arthur

My very first experience with Jesus was when I WAS a JW child, going out in service, and being left home alone alot. I was about 11. I was home alone reading the book of John, and at some point I got on my knees and said to Jesus, "I am not quite sure what you were explaining to Nicodemus, but whatever it means to be born again, please Jesus, I want it"
That was my first experience with the Holy Spirit as He came over me. There are no words to describe that.

That's really neat. That's the first time I heard of someone that young having that kind of experience. If you don't mind me asking, how does your mother feel about you and treat you now? And, if you don't mind me asking a second question, what Christian denomination do you belong to?

25

An Invitation To ThirdWitness & Scholar - strengthen their faith.

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

third witness & scholar,.

i am sure that given your sneering remarks in recent months you know that many, though not all, who post to this board are agnostic / atheists or have 'lost their faith' in the bible.

i am inviting you to present a defence of the bible in order to strengthen the resolve of the many jw's who read this board anonomously.

Arthur

I submit that if even one person avoids years of struggle and heartache over a lie, these types of threads are invaluable. They show that Jehovah's Witnesses are incapable of defending their teachings. They show a Witness' only weapon is arrogance, misdirection, lies, obfuscation and when pushed into a corner, ignore completely as if nothing happened. They show the "emperor" has no clothes.
The point is not getting thirdwitness or scholar (or even You_Know back in the old days) to admit they're wrong. The point is to show someone who is truly questioning, and who really wants to know an accurate answer the truth about the Truth.

Yeah, these are good points Big Tex. I think I had pretty much made up my mind about several doctrines before comming to this site but, I see how these debates can be extremely valuable to the undecided.

49

Song your listening to at the moment

by KW13 in

jw
friends

.

do you have a favourite song your listening to right now?.

usually, i admit i am a rap/hip hop fan but the song reflecting my mood today is 'the sound of silence - simon and garfunkel'.

Arthur

"Tunnel of Love" by Bruce Springsteen

15

Some pics of me.......etc

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

.

hope this works............ .

scoob

Arthur

3rd is some greek god on a beach who is me

Oh, really? At first, I thought that it was a picture of a 12 year-old boy.

66

Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo in

jw
friends

i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

Arthur

often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in God at all. This often puzzles me because I wonder if people who reject a belief in God because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting God or just a man-made organization which claims to be God's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.

I personally went through a period in my life where I was an atheist. I was born and raised a JW and left the org because of no longer believing in it's theology. I guess I just rejected a belief in God because I saw no reason to believe. I had done a good amount of research into the archeological record, and saw the enormous evidence for evolution; and realized that much of the book of Genesis was mythological. I just reasoned: "how does believing in God change or improve my life?" But, later on, I began asking myself: "What if I'm wrong?" And then I began asking myself: "Shouldn't I be willing to at least admit that I don't know it all, and admit the possibility of Godly existence?"

The spiritual experience that you wrote about is very rare; even amoung religious devotees. I have known many people who went through the same feelings, and crisis that you did, and cried out to God for help; never having the experience that you have.

Perhaps more people would believe if they had the experience to back it up. But, when all they have to rely on is an ancient holy book, and church authorities telling them what to believe without the evidence to back it up; atheism doesn't seem so illogical after all. I certainly can't criticize them for reaching such a conclusion.

25

An Invitation To ThirdWitness & Scholar - strengthen their faith.

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

third witness & scholar,.

i am sure that given your sneering remarks in recent months you know that many, though not all, who post to this board are agnostic / atheists or have 'lost their faith' in the bible.

i am inviting you to present a defence of the bible in order to strengthen the resolve of the many jw's who read this board anonomously.

Arthur

There are many active JW's who read this Board and who are imprisoned by ideologies that are both dangerous and soul-destroying and such debates allow them in the peace of their own minds to see another side of the coin.

Yeah, I do see your point. I just seriously doubt that they really are devout JWs as they claim; but I guess that is a trivial side issue anyway. I probably did fail to see the entire big picture.

5

how to make a new creation story?

by pallemar in

jw
friends

i'm having a debate, with some mand, who claims, the creation story(genesis 1 ) is perfekt!

in the bibel, and cound't be better .

well i wanna disprof him:) he he!

Arthur

I highly recommend a book entitled: "Secret Origins of the Bible" by Tim Callahan. There is almost an entire chapter dedicated to the creation account and the Garden of Eden. There are many anomalies in such accounts that when considered in the context of the their mythological origins; make sense. (the serpent, Eve being made from Adam's rib, etc.)

A second note is to point to all of the overwhelming archeological evidence from around the world that basically proves that humans have been on earth much longer than 6,000 years (up to 2 million years according to some estimates).

A simple exploration of the archeological section of any major library is all that is needed. However, this may be asking too much of a close-minded fundamentalist.

27

Are Faders Making It Too Easy For The WT?

by ThomasCovenant in

i've always tried to teach my kids to follow aesop's fable of the 'sun and the wind', i.e.

try the gentle persuasion method for achieving your goals rather than head on aggression.

however as with most things in life there is a time and place for both.

Arthur

Are our methods like the ‘Sun’ in the fable and are they more efficient than the aggressive ‘Wind'

I am not familiar with most fables, and have not read any in quite a number of years. I'm not sure if I would want to model any significant life decisions after the plot of any child's story, but it's an interesting concept to kick around.

most of the people here (and many more to come I feel) are passive faders and only a minority are what could be termed activists.

Fading may or may not be referred to as "passive". Many faders quietly retreat from the org simply out of a sense of necessity, because of the enormous costs that would occur if they were to openly dissent with the org. (i.e. being shunned by family) For many people, the recovery that takes place after exiting the org does not depend on picking a fight with the WTS. For many, simply seeking out other ex-JWs and discussing their experience is all that is needed in the area of recovery. Only those with legitimate legal cases are in a position to pick a legal fight. Remember that we are talking about a huge corporation. Litigation is a serious business, and is not advisable for those who have only minor grievances.

Are we partly to blame for the continuance of these wrongs?

I don’t know. That depends upon how much power the individual has, and whether or not they have a legitimate legal case to be argued. Sometimes picking a fight with a huge corporation only leaves the the "fight picker" more exhausted, more bitter, and broke.

Would it be better, for example, if instead of fading, people started disassociating?

It totally depends upon the individual. Many "faders" have family in the org. For many people, to disassociate would mean to lose their entire family. In this case, no; it would not be better. There are some circumstances that are very complex; and which contain no simple solution.