Posts by clovis

at 0957 they spotted their target; after confirmation orders were received, a one major rick gibney fired two sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in mid flight at precisely 0958".

he was awarded a medal from the governor one year later for his heroic actions.

You?ve got to be lucky to make $4 Billion killing on a 6-month investment of $124 Million

Larry Silverstein is the New York property tycoon who purchased the entire WTC complex just 6 months prior to the 9/11 attacks. That was the first time in its 33-year history the complex had EVER changed ownership.

Mr. Silverstein?s first order of business as the new owner was to change the company responsible for the security of the complex. The new security company he hired was Securacom (now Stratasec). George W. Bush's brother, Marvin Bush, was on its board of directors, and Marvin?s cousin, Wirt Walker III, was its CEO. According to public records, not only did Securacom provide electronic security for the World Trade Center, it also covered Dulles International Airport and United Airlines ? two key players in the 9/11 attacks.

The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for many years to the Bush family. KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

Now, consider: The members of a small cabal owned the WTC complex, controlled its electronic security, and also controlled the security not only for one of the airlines whose aircraft were hijacked on 9/11, but the airport from which they originated.

Another little ?coincidence? -- Mr. Silversten, who made a down-payment of $124 million on this $3.2 billion complex, promptly insured it for $7 Billion. Not only that, he covered the complex against ?terrorist attacks?.

Following the attacks, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy ($7B), based on the two -- in Silverstein's view -- separate attacks. The insurance company, Swiss Re, paid Mr. Silverstein $4.6 Billion ? a princely return on a relatively paltry investment of $124 million.

There?s more. You see, the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception by the NY Port Authority -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?

The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built. It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.

The projected cost to disassemble the towers: $15 Billion. Just the scaffolding for the operation was estimated at $2.4 Billion!

In other words, the Twin Towers were condemned structures. How convenient that an unexpected ?terrorist? attack demolished the buildings completely.

WTC Building 7 was a part of the WTC complex, and covered under the same insurance policy. This 47-storey steel-framed structure, which was NOT struck by an aircraft, mysteriously collapsed 8 hours later that same day into its own footprint at freefall speed ? exactly in the manner of the Twin Towers.

How could this have happened? Mr. Silverstein gave the world the answer when he slipped up during a PBS television interview a year later, on 9/11/2002:

"I remember getting a call from the...er...fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

As anyone who knows anything about construction can tell you, ?Pull? is common industry jargon for a controlled demolition.

One thing is for sure, the decision to 'pull' WTC 7 would have delighted many people. Especially because it has been reported that thousands of sensitive files relating to some of the biggest financial scams in history ? including Enron and WorldCom -- were stored in the offices of some of the building?s tenants:

US Secret Service
NSA
CIA
IRS
BATF
SEC
NAIC Securities
Salomon Smith Barney
American Express Bank International
Standard Chartered Bank
Provident Financial Management
ITT Hartford Insurance Group
Federal Home Loan Bank

The Securities and Exchange Commission has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed by the collapse of WTC 7. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom. ..."Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically affected because so much of their work is paper-intensive," said Max Berger of New York's Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. "This is a disaster for these cases."

Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking [about WorldCom] was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center. The bank says that back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack.

Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more than 200 employees. "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran.

What a neat, complete, and fortuitous turn of events was 9/11.

Incidentally, it?s worth noting that one of Lucky Larry?s closest friends ? a person with whom it?s said he speaks almost daily by phone ? is none other than former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

More on that cozy little relationship later...

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26

What rebellious actions did you or other do in your congregation?

by JH in

jw
friends

what rebellious actions did you or other do in your congregation, not enough to be disfellowshipped, but went a little too far.

sometimes we have to unwind .

i remember sitting in a brothers car.

clovis

When we were teenagers (70's) we would have some pretty wild partys. We would get drunk and make out with the sisters. I got in a big fight one night with this smart ass I never liked and broke my hand punching him in the face. I don't remember any kids ratting us out as we never got called to an Elders meeting.

When later a buddy was going to get married we threw him a bash and all of us including him got really drunk. We got busted on that one and were back in the ol back room. I was an M.S. by then but they never did a whole lot but tell us how worldly we were.

When I finally left the org. I look back and think of all the fun times I passed up amd it kind of pisses me off.

13

JW's, science, and how old is man?

by clovis in

jw
friends

one thing that always got me about the org.

was how they praised modern science when it upheld or agreed with their thinking or doctrines.

however they totally bashed it when it refuted something they taught.

clovis

I'm enjoying all the input and ideas on this very much. I personally have been interested in this type of pre-history ever since I was a kid. I always had a problem with the orgs. time frames and it was one of many things that convinced me that they were mistaken and I had to leave.

As to the Clovis culture I realize it is not the oldest evidence of man in North America, it is just so wide spread. Clovis artifacts are found from Florida to New Brunswick, west thru the entire continent. It is debated if they are from Europe or Asia, but that just makes it all the more interesting.

Many sites in N. and S. America are shedding light on the fact that man has been alive and well at least 15 thousand years or more in the "new world". There is so much evedence one could go on for hours. Thanks for the response.

13

JW's, science, and how old is man?

by clovis in

jw
friends

one thing that always got me about the org.

was how they praised modern science when it upheld or agreed with their thinking or doctrines.

however they totally bashed it when it refuted something they taught.

clovis

One thing that always got me about the org. was how they praised modern science when it upheld or agreed with their thinking or doctrines. However they totally bashed it when it refuted something they taught. Case in point is mankinds time on this planet. The org. say appx 7,000 years and base all their teachings on that fact. They discount radio carbon dating as unreliable.

Enter the Kenniwick man and suddenly the time frame is skewed. Radio carbon 9,000+ - years old. Here in Florida an extinct type of bison was found in the Aucilla river. 12,000 years old, no big deal except for the stone spear point lodged in its skull which killed it.

I'm not discussing science which tries to prove some ape type ancestor millions of years old because quite frankly that is a little far fetched. But proof of mankind alive and well 15 to 20 thousand years ago is irrefutable. Radio carbon dating on previouly live objects is very accurate in time frames of 20 thousand years or less. Hundreds of Paleo sites ranging to 11-12 thousand years ago have been researched here in North America. The entire Clovis culture is that old and is a continent wide culture of big game hunters including mammoth.

I cannot believe the 7,000 year thing among so many other points. It throws off the entire belief of JW's who are so stuck on dates. I would like to here other ideas along this line. Any acheologist/paleoentologists out there?

23

as a jw..did you ever have a REAL theological discussion with anyone?

by candidlynuts in

jw
friends

this came up in a conversation with a non witness friend lately.

he said its like i thought i was having theological discussions all the time but from what he could tell...i would go to the door with prearranged comments, which would illicit one of a few comments and my response would be as programmed as the initial comments.

i'm no brainy person.. and freely admit i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

clovis

I recently had a discussion with my JW sister who I know has her share of doubts. She can't get past the blind faith reasoning. She and her Elder husband have been crapped on so many time by the goody two shoes type JW's but always say it's people not Jehovah who are imperfect. They really don't want to dicuss anything because it brings up too many questions they can't answer.

I don't push it as they are pretty laid back. Both my older sister and I are DF'd and they still talk with us and we stay at each others places when in town. They are 2 of the best people there are but won't question a thing about the org. It frustrates me to no end but I just try to be calm and reason with them.

131

Guantanamo Bay Suicides - a PR Move

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

quote from bbc website .

a top us official has described the suicides of three detainees at the us base at guantanamo bay, cuba, as a "good pr move to draw attention".

colleen graffy told the bbc the deaths were part of a strategy and "a tactic to further the jihadi cause", but taking their own lives was unnecessary.

clovis

How come if someone wants to keep murderous lunatics locked up we suddenly are Bush supporters? I hate Bush and his corrupt, immoral regime. Bush & co. has nothing to do with common sense telling a person that these Muslim fanatics are dangerous and if dead the world would be much better off. I respect and support our troops and am sad they are fighting this stuipid war.

I remember the Beruit bombings, the 1st. Trade center attack, and countless other suicide bombing and attacks way before anyone knew Ol Dubya was around. These people hate everything we hold dear. They treat women like dogs, brain wash their kids, actually live to die in some f--ked up jihad. You'll be kissing the ground 3 times a day and showering once a year if they ever control the world, count on it all the way!

If you think we should let these idiots loose, agree to live with them or at least in their fine country. If not, your really just blowing hot air and no one is impressed with your liberal goody two shoes hype.

131

Guantanamo Bay Suicides - a PR Move

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

quote from bbc website .

a top us official has described the suicides of three detainees at the us base at guantanamo bay, cuba, as a "good pr move to draw attention".

colleen graffy told the bbc the deaths were part of a strategy and "a tactic to further the jihadi cause", but taking their own lives was unnecessary.

clovis

You really think anyone gives a damn about a bunch of Gitmo prisoners? Put a hanging rope in each cell. Those bastards would slit your throat and brag about it right after you broke them out of prison. Get a better cause. They hate anything in the west unconditionally, no thought process involved. Just ask them. Hell, they can't even take a little cartoon without riots and killing people. How can you care about idiots who don't value life?

You think I'm a racist, hatemonger. Actually I am just a realist, and no ones going to solve the messed up crap over there so we should shit or get off the pot.

28

OK, OK, I'm doin it!!!! I need questions!

by WLG in

jw
friends

i'm going to the meeting on sunday, i'm over 1000 miles away from anyone who knows me and i have a goattee, what do i do?

i'm planning to be a naive "interested one" with hard questions.

clovis

I agree with Frog. go have some fun. Get laid or drunk or both! Leave em alone because it's not worth the trouble.