Posts by dozy

55

Ban on Independent Meetings

by lssjr in

source - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.

this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!

"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.

dozy

When I was growing up it was common, and thought well of, for some to gather together to talk about scriptural things they were interested in. My dad often cited such a group meeting for bringing him in. I think they went through parts of one of the old prophecy books from the '60's, honestly I forget the name of it, but he found it fascinating, I guess.
I've not heard of people doing that for a long time.

I remember that going on as well. But nowadays - the average joe publisher is so dumbed down , he would think a Caleb & Sophia cartoon to be "deep spiritual food"!

55

Ban on Independent Meetings

by lssjr in

source - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.

this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!

"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.

dozy

The Question Box ( in 2007 ) was the final straw for me as well. I virtually stomped out of the meeting and was out by the end of the year.

The Society has always clamped down on this sort of thing , especially since the late 70's purge. The Covid / Zoom thing is just another angle to it really that they are keen to suppress.

Back in the late 1990's , one of the elders in our congregation started a meeting in his home once a week ( he had a large open plan conservatory plus dining area ) on a Monday evening to group prep study the weeks Watchtower ( at the same time - puke alert - that the "Bethel family" had their weekly Watchtower prep study as well ) and he would invite some of the elderly ones , single middle aged sisters etc - the usual neglected members of the congregation there. Some would bring buffet stuff like sausage rolls and cakes and they all had tea & coffee etc , so it was as much a social gathering as anything else , albeit with a "spiritual" basis.

It carried on for a few months - absolutely nothing "apostate" about it and it was really appreciated by those who attended ( I think latterly it grew to about 20 or so ) but one of the more uber self righteous elders complained to the CO and he immediately put a stop to it at his visit. This all really shook the elder up and he resigned his position later ( though as far as I know , he is still a JW. )

9

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: THE EFFECTS OF MILLENARIANISM ON THE MAINTENANCE OF A RELIGIOUS SECT.

by carod2000 in

dear,.

i am doing research on the history of jeovah's witnesses and would like to know if any of you have this research work to share: .

jehovah's witnesses: the effects of millenarianism on the maintenance of a religious sect.

dozy

Check out this thread here https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/108487/rare-books (unfortunately the (brilliant) poster called Leolaia who had a copy no longer posts). You could however try messaging the original poster to see if he was successful in obtaining a copy.

Unless you can get it for free , save your $41 ( unless you can get somebody else to pay the bill! ). I have read a few of these University dissertations and generally they have been pretty disappointing , often with many errors and inaccuracies ( even those supposedly at PHD level ). It is very difficult to objectively and accurately conduct research into the Watchtower Society or JW members , especially for an "outsider" , even on the basis of an academic project , as active JWs don't generally respond and the Society refuses to co-operate in any research ( they probably wouldn't really appreciate being called a "sect" , for a start)!

This particular project dates back to 1980 , so it is somewhat dated now as well , as it pre-dates the purge of the early 80's and the major doctrinal changes of the mid 90's referencing the "generation" that time-shifted JWs expectations for the Millenium.

9

A 'typical JW' story

by joey jojo in

i am friends with an elderly 'worldly' woman, who was unaware i am an ex-jw.

she employs a jw husband and wife pioneer couple for odd jobs around her house- mowing, cleaning etc.

the couple has been working for her and her recently deceased husband for years.. just before the 2019 international convention, despite the fact that the husband was fighting his last battle with illness, the couple kept asking him to attend the convention with them.

dozy

The CO stated that it was alright to take and even read the magazine if it meant getting Watchtower literature in the householder's hands.

That isn't official Society policy. Sounds like the CO is going off on his own views there...

64

Havent gone to the kingdom hall in ten years but may have to go back...

by Joliette in

made a big mistake of talking about being raised as a jehovah's witness to some old friends and family.

people have told me that i am still a jws even though i've never been baptized.

i'm in school for social services, dealing with student loan debt, and a lot of other debt.

dozy

Hi - I do sincerely sympathise with your situation , but have you really though this one through? I haven't read the thread through so doubtless other posters have made similar comments , but just my 2c.

Initially you will experience short term "love bombing" - in these days when the truth about JWs is just a Google search away , very few people join JWs these days , and a former lapsed JW who returns would receive a lot of attention. Very quickly , after baptism , this would disappear and you would just be treated like any other member of the congregation.

Would you really want to be spending hours every week knocking on doors ( or being judged if you weren't "doing enough"). Or standing beside a literature cart at some crappy railway station? Sitting through two long boring meetings a week - dragging yourself out on a Sunday morning or weekday evening.

As a 30 something female JW - you know that the chances of finding a boyfriend / husband in the Borg are pretty much zero. You would just be regarded as yet another single JW "sister" - pretty much the bottom of the pecking order in the Borg. Cut out of most of the congregation cliques. In the unlikely event you did meet someone - can you imagine dating with a chaperone tagging along at all times?

JWs is just a former religious publishing business - now mainly a real estate flipping business. Its like a MLM. People work for free with the promise being the imminent new order - a false promise that has been made since the 1870's. It has certain elements of a religion , but in truth - ultimately , that is all it is.

Whatever the question is - joining a cult can never be an answer.

34

Anyone notice how when some of us older ones were in the cult.......

by mickbobcat in

when i was a kid in the late sixties the type of books we would study was very intense compared to the bull shit pablum that they put out today?

i mean the finished mystery and others now its these stupid books that don't dive deep into the beliefs.

.

dozy

I hadn't seen a Watchtower for a few years and couldn't believe just how simple the study articles are now when I looked online. Just 3 sentences or so per paragraph - incredibly simple questions. So dumbed down it is like kindergarten level.

19

Letter from local Kingdom Hall

by jhine in

today l received a hand written letter from my local kingdom hall .

l say my local as the one nearest me , for those who don't know me l am not nor have ever been a jw .

as this letter was addressed " to the householder " l assume that everyone in the area ( tamworth , staffordshire ) has been sent one .

dozy

Are these letters just sent through Royal Mail and stamped? At 66p a time - that's going to be pretty expensive. 100 letters - £66 ( about $100 ).

Why not say to them that you have respectfully read their letter and ask them to watch a simple video in return - eg the Youtube video of Tony Morris buying the whisky. https://tinyurl.com/y3kmdj5z and ask them for their thoughts.

They won't of course , but at least you tried.

30

Thoughts on JW funerals

by Syme in

i recently had the sad opportunity to attend 2 jw funerals.

the first was a few months ago and the second today.

the first was my grandfather's and the second of an old friend back from my jw days.

dozy

It seems to vary but I have noticed a change in more recent times that funeral talks tend not to follow quite so tightly the Society's script. This is especially true if there are likely to be a number of "wordly" people , especially close relatives , at the service.

31

Who was it who ''rescued'', or ''saved'' you?

by Beth Sarim in

from the borg?.

i point to none other than cal lehman and the towerwatch ministries.

towewatch.com.. the years following the collapse of the ussr and the 1995 generation left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.

dozy

A lot. This website ( thanks Simon! ) then called jw.net. On the JW Wikipedia page there used to be live references to a few chapters in Ray Franz's books which I then purchased and downloaded. JW Facts. The references proving the Society had copied pictures from booze adverts and even Christendom's books https://www.watchtowerlies.com/plagiarism_by_the_watchtower.html . The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories.

https://www.box.com/shared/uclytd91jd

But really above all it was the Society with its numerous flip flops , a particular Kingdom Ministry article in 2007 ( approx ) that told JWs not to research Hebrew & Greek and the rampant hypocrisy and nepotism that I observed in the Organisation that killed it for me.

34

Are there more Bethel layoffs in the immediate future?

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i just saw a post on reddit: ‘wt are prepping the r&f for changes in the march/april meeting workbook’.. in the post the person noted what they read (for march 8) and it mentioned bethel adjustments and reference was made to 2015 when bethelites were let go.. if this happens (yet again) another bunch of people are being sent home to fend for themselves in the big bad world at an advanced age with little to no preparation.

even though this doesn’t surprise me, it could not come at a worse time with a global pandemic and massive job loss everywhere..congregations are already in turmoil because of so many who reached retirement age totally unprepared because they were told armageddon would be here before they reached that age.

this is in addition to all the other ‘needy’ and troubled types in the congregations looking for as$istance.. i hope any bethelites there have a plan and some people they can contact.

dozy

From a UK perspective , I also wonder about the new UK Bethel - they have 584 apartments there housing up to 900 people. I am still in touch with a PIMO JW who has worked on the site & he is baffled as to what exactly the 900 workers will do , bearing in mind that no printing is taking place - a question also raised ( but not answered ) at a planning meeting with the local authority ( below ). He asked a member of the UK branch committee who said that "Jehovah will show the way."

https://www.whpc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/MINUTESOPENMTGMASTER25.11.19-4.pdf

My friend reckons as a distribution hub for German produced literature and a film studio they could probably get by with 300 maximum very comfortably - probably less.

He reckons that in a couple of years a lot of these Bethelites will be getting kicked out - it would be very easy for the Society to sell off the accommodation blocks which are some distance from the HQ ( they also own 200 acres of non developed land and say they have "no current plans at the moment" to develop it so could build new accommodation blocks there if required ).

584 studio style apartments would easily fetch over £100K each - that's upwards of $100 million from a build cost a fraction of that. The Society are already selling off the 18 flats in Wood Street , Chelmsford that supposedly was long term additional accommodation https://ibsaproperty.com/

Increasingly nowadays the Society are basically a real estate development and trading company using free labour to develop property & free of capital gains tax to flip. It's such a simple model.