Protests would do no good, other than making yourself feel better, the rank and file followers have been taught to ignore anything 'apostates' would say or give them. Not that I don't want these lies brought out as much as everyone else though, but I don't think that would make any impact at all. I think the best strategy would be to inform the general public about the hypocrisies, corruption, and lies that exist in the organization. If the general public were aware about the damage the Watchtower has caused families and individuals people would be so quick to listen to them when they come to their doors.
SickofLies
JoinedPosts by SickofLies
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7
2006 Canadian District Conventions
by enderby indo any canadians have the issue of the watchtower or awake which lists the dates and locations for this year's series of dictrict conventions?
i'm particularly interested in any listing for hamilton, ontario @ copps.
second question: has anybody on this forum ever picketed a convention?
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Is There a Creator Who Cares?
by SickofLies ini noticed that there is a lot of information out there on the net about the life: how did it get here?
book and about the book the bible: gods word or mans?
but i havent seen anything talking about the newest book released by the society is there a creator who cares about you?
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SickofLies
I noticed that there is a lot of information out there on the net about the ‘Life: How did it get here?’ book and about the book “The Bible: God’s word or mans?” but I haven’t seen anything talking about the newest book released by the society ‘Is There a Creator Who Cares About You?’ – 1998 Watchtower Bible and Tract Society . So here’s a pretty basic rebuttal of the book.
Chapter 1: What Can Add Meaning to Your Life?
This chapter is trying to make the case that the only way to find purpose in your life is through God. They use a quote by Albert Einstein “The man who regards his life as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.” Indeed this is true, but Einstein himself didn’t believe in a literal God, but found his meaning through science and the pursuit of knowledge. There are many ways to find meaning in life; one shouldn’t limit themselves to only one.
“Over the centuries, many have sought answers through religion. Buddha … sought enlightment, or meaning, in religion but without belief in a personal God.” – Pg. 7
Indeed, I agree with this statement 100%, in no way is spirituality linked to a belief in God or an afterlife. There are some great books out there about this subject; ‘The God Gene’ by Dean Hamer is one I would recommend. Some of the largest religions in the world such as Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism and others have priests, temples or monasteries but no religious belief system in the standard sense.
After establishing that religion is a valid way to seek meaning in life the Watchtower makes the usual mistake of trying to attack science: “Likely you know examples of ‘scientific facts’ that prevailed in the past but that in time were proved totally wrong.” - Pg. 8 They then lists what they consider to be some of these ‘facts’ like the earth being flat. Well, first of all the idea of the earth being flat was never one that was based on anything we would call science; these ideas were part of religious beliefs of the time (including early Christianity and Judaism).
For an encore to this purposefully misleading claim, they next try and link these ancient philosophical ideas to modern scientific theories. They use the example of an 18 th century philosopher David Hume who said he could see how complex biological design could come about by chance, to say that evolution is not a well thought out theory. Do I even need to point out how stupid an argument this is? How can a philosopher with no background in science who lived in the 18 th century be used as a source to question evolution? AHH!
“We invite all who have an open mind to consider this subject … one who possesses ‘Intellectual Honesty’ is characterized by a ‘readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true’ and ‘to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available.’” Pg. 9
Wow! If only this were true of the Witness themselves! This almost sounds like ‘apostate’ thinking! God forbid one have an open mind to the evidence and consider both sides of an argument! Surely this can’t be what they mean?!?! Calm down, this surely isn’t what they are trying to imply as is clearly seen in the chapters to come.
- Enjoy! I’ve already written a rebuttal for chapters 2 and 3, I will type those up tomorrow when I have time.
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OLD information for NEW light
by architect inhas anyone ever stop to realize that since the new change in thought regarding the generation that jesus spoke about was from references dated: (w95 11/1 pp.
1011 saved from this wicked generation...).
1957 walter bauer's greek-english lexicon.... 1940 or so w.e vine's expository dictionary.... 1964 theological dictionary of the new testament.
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SickofLies
Let's not forget that the 1914 date was of adventist origin and adventists worked out their dates in a very arbitrary astrology like manner connecting things together without using any rational explanation that would justify such connections. In fact Russell himself tried to justify 1914 using astrology and pyramidology.
Could you provide some links to this information? I would love to see it.
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Could the GB be using this forum?
by Kristofer ini sometimes wonder if perhaps some of the higher ups in the organization are visiting this forum.
perhaps it has become a valuable source for them to "test the waters" before something goes public to see what the reaction would be?
am i overreacting?
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SickofLies
I know for a FACT that the society knows about the existence and CONTENTS of 'apostate' (or as I call em, real truth) web sites. We had a local needs part in our congregation recently about (fake:) the dangers of the internet (real: the dangers of information), in it the elder talked about how you can find books online that publishers should not be reading like the flock book and he mentioned about sites where apostates meet and discuss things that would be detrimental to our faith. As I'm sure he personally doesn't visit these sites regularly out of curiosity he probably gets all that information from the
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knocking.org
by dvw inhas anyone heard about the documentary on pbs?
its called "knocking".
its about the wts.
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SickofLies
Wow, very interesting, I read the whole thread about the situation including the many letters written, any word on if this is ever going to be released?
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What on earth was he talking about?
by SickofLies inand adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.--1 tim.2:14-15 .
any idea's what this was suppose to mean?
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SickofLies
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. --1 Tim.2:14-15
Any idea's what this was suppose to mean? Not something ever talked about in the meetings, but I've always wondered.
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How have you coped since leaving?
by SickofLies ini noticed that many different people have coped in many different ways, i believe this reflects the fact we all have left or been kick out for different reasons.
what have you done since leaving?
have you joined another church, are you athesitc?
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SickofLies
I don't know about you guy's but reading all these sincere experiences has helped me cope, know that I'm not the only one who wishes they could just have a normal family life and be able to talk to our loved ones. Its horrible what this cult has done, tear up families, destroy lives and then act like all of this is 'God's will' is just disgusting. We I see what you guy's have written it obvious none of you are bad people as the society suggests, but rather we are all just suffering from the effects of a dangerous and controling cult. The reason why the society cannot allow others to talk to people like us is their whole organization would fall apart in no time. I hope everyone continues to be strong and I hope I get the chance to actually meet some of you sometime.
~SoL
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How have you coped since leaving?
by SickofLies ini noticed that many different people have coped in many different ways, i believe this reflects the fact we all have left or been kick out for different reasons.
what have you done since leaving?
have you joined another church, are you athesitc?
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SickofLies
I noticed that many different people have coped in many different ways, I believe this reflects the fact we all have left or been kick out for different reasons. What have you done since leaving? Have you joined another church, are you athesitc? Do you celibrate holidays? How did you go about making new friends?
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The Bible - God's word or Man's (Part 2)
by SickofLies infirst i want to thank everyone who's e-mailed me or posted links either to other websites or threads in this form dealing with these issues.
i am making careful documentation of responces from people on both sides of the fence.
please feel free to contribute no matter how you feel on the subject, if you feel god inspired the bible please to contribute reasons and if possible include scriptures to back up your point of view.
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SickofLies
First I want to thank everyone who's e-mailed me or posted links either to other websites or threads in this form dealing with these issues. I am making careful documentation of responces from people on both sides of the fence. Please feel free to contribute no matter how you feel on the subject, if you feel God inspired the bible please to contribute reasons and if possible include scriptures to back up your point of view.The creation account in Genesis 1 lists ten major events in this order: (1) a beginning; (2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3) light; (4) an expanse or atmosphere; (5) large areas of dry land; (6) land plants; (7) sun, moon, and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; (8) sea monsters and flying creatures; (9) wild and tame beasts and mammals; (10) man. The odds of getting that order correct by chance are one in 3,628,800. - Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, p. 37 .
A common misunderstandint of how Gensis should be read, in any case according to science; the real order is: (1) a beginning; (2) light; (3) sun and stars; (4) primitive earth, moon, and atmosphere; (5) dry land; (6) sea creatures; (7) some land plants; (8) land creatures and more plants and sea creatures; (9) flying creatures (insects) and more plants and land and sea creatures; (10) mammals, and more land and sea animals, insects, and plants; (11) the first birds, (12) fruiting plants (which is what Genesis talks about) and more land, sea, and flying creatures; (13) man and more of the various animals and plants. That is nothing like the order endorsed by Jehova's Witnesses. The odds of choosing that particular order are not one in 3,628,800. Much of the order is constrained. For example, the beginning must have been first, and land had to exist before land animals and plants. When these are taken into account, the chance of getting that order are one in 5,760 at worst.
The claim contradicts what Genesis says. Genesis does not say when the sun and moon became visible (which would not have been until after eyes were created in any event); it tells when they were created. Genesis also refers to fruiting plants, which came after the first sea and land animals.Ancient people thought that the water from rivers flowing into oceans spilled over the ends of the earth. On the other hand, Ecclesiastes 1:7 says, "All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again." This shows the Bible's unexpected accuracy. - Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, p. 201-202.
Accuracy on one point does not show overall accuracy. Job 38:22, for example, says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses. Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle. Ecclesiastes 1:7 does not describe the water cycle. It merely says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground. Interpreting that passage literally completely rejects its context. The chapter says, briefly, that "there is nothing new under the sun," and gives several examples. If, in fact, knowledge of the water cycle were interpreted as a new bit of knowledge, it would contradict the chapter as a whole. Attributing a requirement of some special knowledge to account for this verse assumes the ancient Hebrews were idiots. Knowledge of a spherical earth is ancient, and with it no edge for water to spill over. It is theologically reasonable to assume that God is not constantly creating new water (Gen. 2:3). It is easy to see mists rising from waters and rain coming from clouds. A water cycle would be difficult not to deduce.
Ok, here a very common one: The Bible's internal harmony around a central theme testifies to its divine authorship. It is sixty-six books written over sixteen centuries by some forty different writers of diverse backgrounds, but every part follows the same theme. - Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, p. 215.
The Bible's harmony can also be attributed to the fact that its contents were selected and edited, by people, to make it harmonious.The Bible is not harmonious on some very important points. For example:
Many people have noticed the difference between the Old Testament God, who is vengeful and bloodthirsty (e.g., Gen. 6-8; Exod. 7-11) and commands and aids the slaughter of one's enemies (e.g., Exod. 32:27-28; Deut. 3:6; Num. 31:1-18), versus the New Testament God, who preaches peace and commands people to love their enemies. Some parts of the Bible say the sins of the father are inherited by future generations (e.g., Exod. 20:5, Deut. 5:9). Other parts (Ezek. 18) says they are not. Much of the Bible emphasizes the unity of God. Genesis 1, for example, stresses that all of creation came from the same God, not different gods as other contemporary religions taught. However, the New Testament, particularly Revelation, introduces a good/evil dualism akin to Zoroastrianism, which has become particularly common in Christian tradition.
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HELP PLEASE---family emergency
by apostlestate inthis is my first time ever participating in any discussion with ex -witnesses ever, and it's long overdue.
i discovered the real truth about 6 years ago with the aid of websites like this (cannot contain my gratefulness), now i am stepping into your world and it feels right.
my family runs four generations deep in witness muck,my great-grandmother was the oldest living pioneer in our region for what seemed like forever, three of my great-grandparents were "anointed",my grandfather hobnobbed with the governing body, etc.,etc.
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SickofLies
WELCOME! I feel you 100%, I've been trying to reason with my dad on issues I've been having too, its important to believe that at least your family agree's your not crazy, even if everyone else in the congregation does. Do a google search on 607 or 587 and you'll get tons of good info to use. But I agree with many people here about being careful, is it important to change your dad's mind about what he believe's? Is he happy as a JW?
Think about this carefully and come to terms with these issues before you decide to say anything, BTW best of luck!