Posts by David2002

28

Secret elders meeting in the end of 2010

by Lore in

jw
friends

all the elders in my circuit are driving across the state for a big elders meeting.

and the ministerial servants have to do it on sunday.

evidentally they were all told to study certain parts of their new book before going.. .

David2002

Skeeter claims regarding the so-called "secret meeting" that he heard...

"1) A JW can give a disfellowshipped family member room and board if there is an extreme emergency.

Now, I don't know if there was any illustrations of what constituted an extreme emergency or family member.

2) A JW can himself/herself attend college or pay for another to attend college only if the person attending AND the JW did not become spiritually weak.

So, this allows elders to send their kids to University? But, makes the kids "keep in" the Truth to get their tuition. Loving provision with no coercion hey? Reminds me of the people who use a spouse through Law or Medical school, then gets divorced immediately afterwards. I hope some JW kids milk the hell out of their elder families. LOL."

GIVE ME A BREAK... throughout the years, I know of many elders that sent their children to college...attending college was always a personal decision, and many young Christians, sometime with their support of their parents, including their fathers who were elders, decided to attend. Even Raymond Franz said that much in his book regarding elders sending their children to college...

There have always been Witnesses relatives that have provided room and board to a immediate family member or relative that has been disfellowship. That is nothing new.

TELL ME A REAL SECRET...not the some made up story...

46

Today's Watchtower study shows how desperate they are

by Mickey mouse in

it seems as though at least one article in every issue of the study watchtower is devoted to reinforcing the governing body's authority.

this from pargraph 10:.

10 christ provides loving oversight of his congregations on earth by means of appointed elders.

David2002

Mickey Mouse wrote:

"10 Christ provides loving oversight of his congregations on earth by means of appointed elders. (Eph. 4:8, 11, 12) In the first century, all the overseers were spiritbegotten. They were depicted in Revelation as stars in Christ’s right hand. (Rev.1:16, 20). Today, most congregation elders are of the other sheep. They are appointed after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit, so they too can be regarded as under Christ’s direction, or guiding hand. (Acts 20:28). They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth.—Read Acts 15:6, 28-30.

I counted the number of times the term 'Govening Body' was used in the current study Watchtower (5 articles in all). It occurred a total of 8 times.

They are loosing control and they know it."

Mickey - your assessment does not make any sense at all...the teaching that Jesus is using a group of anointed Christians as a GB has been always taught by the Witnesess based on the various NT descriptions of the 1st century Christian congregation. It is nothing new...that doctrine, based on the NT, has bee taught and emphasized for years. It has nothing to do with the GB losing control...I disrepectfully disagree with your opinion.

27

Jehovah's Christian Witnesses??

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

.

when i was a kid and on vacation in florida about 20 years ago, my dad had mentioned about an "apostate group" in florida and that it was called "jehovah's christian witnesses" supposedly they even had their own kingdom halls, how many others here are aware of this group and do they even exist still?

dave

David2002

What I heard, and this was from 2 Bethelites, was that there was one apostate group calling themselves Jehovah's Christian Witnesses..which may have caused some confusion.. There, were, several Kingdom Halls in the US and elsewhere with a sign that read "Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses", but only one group of Witnesses (really ex-Witnesses), about 16 in number, split, to form their own group. I don't believe that group is still active. The group was split around the late 1980's..

31

Serious Omissions in New Watchtower Book

by metatron in

jw
friends

the society's latest book, "bearing thorough witness about god's kingdom" contains two serious omissions.. first, on page 105, it offers an outright lie about the organization and the bible.

"they do not force the scriptures to fit their views.

impartial observers have recognized this fact.

David2002

I do not think that the "Thorough Witness" book misquoted Jason Debuhn. He states in his book that the Witnesses seek to find the truth of Christianity from the Bible only, starting, as he puts from "scratch", without bearing in mind the traditions of even the reformed Protestant movement. (see pages 162-165 of his book). It is true he disagrees with the NWT translators choice of the name Jehovah in NT passages and dedicates an appendix on that topic. However, while disagreeing he implies he understands why they included the name, which is why he calls the rendition of Kyrious as Jehovah as an interpretative translation. The fact is the Jason Debuhn generally praises the NWT as a relatively good translation, and agrees with it's renditions of some hotly disputed NT texts, including John 1:1. And the point he was trying to make on page 165 of his book, Truth In Translation, is that Witnesses based their beliefs solely on what the Bible says, not in other religious traditions. He is correct in his viewpoint, and that is the point the "Thorough Witness" book was making.

44

Jehovhah's Witnesses Once Again America's Fastest Growing Church

by David2002 in

according to the 2009 edition of the yeabook of american and canadian churches, jehovah's christian witnesses are once again the fastest group in the united states.

meanwhile the roman cathollic church and the southern baptist convention lost thousands of members.

while the growht rate of the witnesses was 2.12%, based mainly on those that actively preach the good news, it was the highest growth percentage when compared to other groups.

David2002

According to the 2009 edition of the Yeabook of American and Canadian Churches, Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are once again the fastest group in the United States. Meanwhile the Roman Cathollic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention lost thousands of members. While the growht rate of the Witnesses was 2.12%, based mainly on those that actively preach the good news, it was the highest growth percentage when compared to other groups. Most of major groups in the US had a decline or flat membership. For more info see links at:

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/belief-blog/2009/Feb/25/catholics-southern-baptists-losing-members/

http://www.ncccusa.org/news/090130yearbook1.html

http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3871&Itemid=53

29

2008 Publisher Statistics Charted

by jwfacts in

i have updated the information at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/statistics.htm to include the 2008 figures.

here are a couple of the more interesting charts.. the following shows the increase in memorial partakers, which has been discussed at length in other threads.. .

the following two are my favourites.

David2002

"Supreme One" One major flaw in your calculations: Anyone, regardless as to whether he or she is baptized, is counted as a publisher as long as the individual reports the hours preached. So an individual can be counted as a non-baptized publisher for 3 years, and then get baptized. Your figures showing the difference between the number of those baptized versus the increase in publishers are therefore flawed. Some of newly baptized ones were already counted in prior years. I heard of cases of non-baptized Witnesses, who were counted as publishers, who preached actively 3-5 years before being baptized. In many cases these were young teens who were raised as Witnesses. The JW's method of counting members is very conservative compared to most other religious groups. For instance, one may actively attend meetings, and yet not preach actively. He or she will not then be included in the annual membership count. There are literally millions that attend the KH meetings on a weekly basis, more than the average church attendee, and yet the KH attendee is not counted as a member, even if actively participating in the meetings. You will need to correct your method of computations, taking into account what I just mentioned, in order for your statistics to be of any use. - David

13

COURT RULES VATICAN LIABLE for USA PEDO CASES - Surely WT Nervous Over This

by abbagail in

on november 25, 2008, the wall street journal law blog and the wsj both posted articles about this... .

sixth circuit: vatican can be sued for sexual abuse .

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/11/25/sixth-circuit-vatican-can-be-sued-for-sexual-abuse/.

David2002

The Southern Baptist are probably more fearful because they rejected keeping a database of pedophile clergy Baptists, and they rarely, if ever, expelled them. Interestingly, Witnesses were criticized for keeping a database of former pedophiles as well as those accused of child abuse-a database used to identify and warn elders and congregation of certain individuals. Witnesses were the first Christian group to deny anyone a teaching position or elder position or ministerial servant who is known to have been a pedophile or accused of such immoral and criminal conduct. Unlike the Catholics and Baptists, those known to be involved in such depraved conduct are immediately removed from being their teaching posts, and never permitted to hold such as post. The Southern Baptist Convention refused to keep a database of pedophiles ministers and others that have penetrated their churches. The Southern Baptist argue their churches are autonomous and independent, and they must deal with the problems on their own. This is similar to other major Protestant groups, including the other evangelicals. Time magazine recently said that the Southern Baptist decision against a pedophile database is one of top 10 un-reported stories of 2008. As it states: "while the headlines regarding churches and pedophilia remain largely focused on Catholic parishes, the lack of hierarchical structure and systematized record-keeping in most Protestant churches makes it harder not only for church leaders to impose standards, but for interested parties to track allegations of abuse."(see link below) http://www.time.com/time/specials/2008/top10/article/0,30583,1855948_1861760_1862212,00.html

46

Born again JW's?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i am sorry, but i just find it so hard to see a bunch of former witnesses doing the whole born again thing.

acting in a way that is just trading one line of thought, for another.

basically, one time you said you were waiting for the "new system" and now you pulled that thought out and replaced it with the "waiting for heaven" comment.

David2002

The only one who are truly born again Christians are those who have the hope as reigning with Christ in the heavenly kingdom, as kings ands priests, reigning over humankind living in paradise earth. (Rev. 5:9,10, Rev. 20:4-6; Rev. 14:1-3; Rev. 21:1-4; Psa. 37:10,11,29)

42

Another Child Porno JW Freak - Caught in Massive Sting

by skeeter1 in

http://www.theage.com.au/national/jail-for-dj-caught-in-child-porn-sting-20081203-6qo7.html.

jail for dj caught in child porn sting.

paul millar december 4, 2008 a sketch of andrew van rossum.

David2002

It is sad on those who know the biblical truth, or should be aware of them, fall into such deprived conduct. Most likely he will face expulsion from the Christian Congregation for his is seemingly unrepentant conduct.

35

Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced

by betterdaze in

vatican says "yahweh" not to be pronounced .

calls on practice used by 1st christians .

washington, d.c., aug. 19, 2008 (zenit.org).- a note from the vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of god revealed in the tetragrammaton yhwh is not to be pronounced in catholic liturgy.

David2002

Why the sudden change? Catholic churches rarely used the name anyway, even though it appears in several of their Bible versions including the Jerusalem Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible and the Christian Community Bible, all of which contain the Name spelt as Yahweh . They have also sponsored a Catholic edition of the Living Bible, which includes the name Jehovah in the OT over 300 times. The Westminister Catholic version, which was orginally published in the UK , includes the name Jehovah in the OT each time YHWH appears in the original text. The Older Catholic Spanish Versions, such as the Spanish Catholic Bible by Torres Amat, including the name spelt as Jehova a few times in the OT text. Yet many Catholic were encouraged to read the New American Catholic Bible or another Catholic version which did not contain the name. Now it appears they want to take the name out all together.

The argument they use is weak, and in apppears to contradict Jesus himself. They argue that the LXX NEVER used God's name. However, it is now known that earlier editions of the LXX did contain the Tetragrammatton. A more recent discovery of the fragments called "Nahal Hever Minor Prophets" dated around 50 CE, contains the books of Habakkuk, Nahum, Micah, Zechariah, etc. and it includes contain the Tetragram. Another dated LXX fragment dated around the 1st century which contains the book of Job 42, and it also contains the Tetragram. Evidence indicates that the earlier or original LXX contained the Name. Those earlier editions of the LXX were written around the time of Jesus' ministry. However, the Catholic church appears to appeal to the LXX that were written in the 2nd and 3rd, which were available after Jesus' life on earth. Some scholars believe that prior to the mid-2nd century no copies of the LXX contained substitutes for the Divine Name. Instead, they used some version of the Name. So when when Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah as recorded in Luke chapter 4, he must of pronounced God's name. Jesus did not follow the Jewish custom of not pronouncing God's name. In Matthew 15, he said that the Pharisees made God's word invalid by their traditions and non-bibilcal rules. Jesus instead taught us that we should sanctify or keep God's name holy, and made his name known. (Mat. 6:9, 10, John 17:6, 26). The very name Jesus means "Jehovah's means of salvation", something which the early Christians, who were mainly composed of Jewish converts, must have known. They knew that Jesus was sent by Jehovah to save humankind (compare Matt. 1:21, John 3:16, 36). The apostle Paul while emphasizing Jesus name, as the name GIVEN by which we must be saved, also stated that God had selected the Christian congregation as a "people for his name", and then cited the Hebrew Scriptures which mentioned God's name twice, most likely quoting from an early LXX which included the Name. The 144,000 Christians of Rev. 14 have the name of Jesus and his Father's name "written on their forehead". In Rev. 19:1-6, all of the Christians are said to be worshipping and saying Hallelujah, Praise Jah, Jehovah. So the NT text clearly shows that true Christians will be praisers of Jehovah, making God's name known and sanctifying it like Jesus did.