Posts by Dawn

13

"seven stars" of Revelation 1:20 - JW...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

.

according to the march 15, 2002 wt page 14 the "seven stars" of revelation 1:20 in christ's righ hand apply exclusively to appointed jw elders today and since they and the governing body are under christ's direction we should submit to their leadership etc.. .

at the kingdom hall last week i heard a talk in wich the speaker intimated that since the congregations in asia minor all received letters they were organized in much the same way as the wt is today.. what is your take on this matter?

Dawn

Revelation 1:20 answers itself - the 7 lampstands are the 7 churches to which the letters are addressed. The 7 stars are the angels of the 7 churches - whether they are literally angels or representative of the pastors of those 7 churches I don't know. But it is quite clearly directed to the 7 churches mentioned specifically in the first chapter of Revelation.

It never ceases to amaze me how the WTBS takes every part of the bible and applies it to themselves - "Hey look at us - we're the 7 stars..and the 144,000...and the Great Crowd...oh yea, and the faithful and discrete slave..er...class....and blah blah blah"

Why didn't I see this before? It is so clear to me now.

26

LATEST INSTALLMENT: ANSWERS 22-31

by You Know in

22. if the holy spirit is god's impersonal active force, how could he: be referred to as "he" and "him" in jn 16:7- 8 and jn 16:13-14; bear witness (jn 15:26); feel hurt (isa 63:10); be blasphemed against (mk 3:29); say things (ezek 3:24, acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, and heb 10:15-17): desire (gal 5:17); be outraged (heb 10:29); search (i cor 2:10); comfort (acts 9:31); be loved (rom 15:30); be lied to and be god (acts 5:3-4)?.

how can this be since if jesus had been created by god, then he would have been with god when everything else was created?

why is the word "other" inserted?

Dawn

where Jehovah himself said: "Let US make man in OUR image."

(1) Jehovah was speaking to someone who would be involved in the creation - as he says "let us..." This rules out everyone except Jesus correct?

(2) "...in our image" - So if Jesus was an angel at the time (Michael) - that must mean we are made in the image of angels AND of God. I have not found any biblical mention of ANYTHING made in God's image except Man - nor have I found a basis for believing we are made in the image of Angels.

You Know - I'm interested in your thoughts here.

16

Sifted As Wheat???

by VioletAnai in

jw
friends

i was just pondering the scripture, but i'm not sure if it's satan who's demanded the 'faithful' to be sifted as wheat.

i can't remember where the scripture is either.

my question is: why did jehovah give in to his demands?

Dawn

the prophecy in Zechariah that foretold that the Shepherd would be struck and the sheep scattered. That prophecy by the way has a final application. That's why we can anticipate that the organization is going to get laid low in the immediate future.

Again I will agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that Christ's "organization" will be scattered - but I do not see that the prophecy applies only to JW's. It seems clear to me that Jesus was speaking of Christians - this applies to all faithful Christians who will face hardship during the time that the AntiChrist/Beast/False Prophet trio is in power.

So often the WTBS takes prophecies such as these and applies it to themselves - I don't see the biblical basis for this.

10

stephanie and her new girlfriend...

by airwlk149 in

jw
friends

this has nothing to do with jw's whatsoever, and it is totally personal, so here goes.... i went over to my ex girlfriend's house to pick up my mail.

(i moved out and some of my mail still goes there even though i put in a change of address form.

) we had gotten in a fight the night before.

Dawn

(((((((airwlk)))))))

It's going to take time to get over Stephanie. You are still mourning her loss - and that's normal. The best thing you can do is continue to "vent" - talk to your friends and us here on the board. I have found that it somehow helps to release my feelings, especially when my heart is broken.

Hang in there - you WILL get better and you WILL get stronger.

Hey - here's a great fantasy. Imagine someday Stephanie realizes what a mistake she made and wants you back - only you're completely over her and say "Yea.....I don't think so.....". Well....those fantasies always helped me - guess I'm a little weird (ha ha ha ha) - but it did finally happen with my ex and it felt sooooooo good to realize that I was completely over him. You will be there too airwlk - you'll get over Stephanie and move on to a great life.

44

MORE ANSWERS TO 65 QUESTIONS: 11-21

by You Know in

11. since the wts claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to christ (mt 16:18)?

if so, who was it that "passed the torch of god's spirit" to c. t. russell when he founded the organization?

what was the name of this individual or individuals?.

Dawn

Turning to Revelation 5:9 it mentions that God selected his kings and priests from "every tribe and tongue and people and nation." Are these the same 144,000? Yes, because the verse says that they are singing a new song before God.

Read Revelation 5:9 in context. Those singing the new song in this verse are not the 144,000 - it is the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders.

On the one hand, it says that this exclusive group of 144,000 is taken from all tribes and nations, but then the passage you noted says they are taken from the 12 tribes of Israel

Again - not correct if read in context. There is clearly more than one group in heaven - Revelation mentions at least 4 different groups (not including the angels, the 4 living creatures, Michael, and Jesus) - there are (1) the 24 elders, (2) the 144,000, (3) the saints, and (4) a great crowd. And note - that the great crowd (Rev 7:9) is standing before the throne of God in heaven.

On another topic - the Diety of Christ - Revelation offers an interesting insight. Notice Rev 1:12-18. Someone like the "son of man" is speaking, who says he "I am the first and the last, the living one who died and I am alive ever more" - obviously Jesus. However, Isaiah 44:6 (NWT) says "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, 'I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God'..", and again Isaiah 48:12 Jehovah calls himself the first and the last, now Revelation 1:8 according to the NWT says "I am the Alpha and the Omega", says Jehovah God "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty", Rev 22:12-13 "Look! I am coming quickly...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."...who is talking in Revelation 22:12-13...read further to verse 16 - it is "I, Jesus".

Both Jesus and God refer to themselves as the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega. It is obvious to me that only one can be the First - and only one can be the Last - there is only room for one. Revelation 1:7 tells us that Jesus is coming, yet the NWT in Revelation 1:8 tells us it is Jehovah God that is coming - so who is coming?

Read John chapter 14, Philip asks Jesus to show him the Father, Jesus answers (verse 9) " Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip?" and in John chatpter 20, verse 28 Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God".

You Know - I struggled with this concept for a long time - being raised a JW I could not understand nor accept the Diety of Christ. However, once I read the book of John and the book of Revelation by themselves it was all too clear that Jesus is God.

35

A simple question for You Know

by toddy in

jw
friends

.

you know,

do you think the end of the current system is going to happen in your lifetime?

Dawn

I've been studying the book of Revelation over the past few months. It seems pretty clear to me that anyone who loved God/Jesus will have been killed before Armageddon ever comes - whether it's being killed by the Beast/AntiChrist/False Prophet trio or by starvation because they are unable to purchase food because they don't have the "mark of the beast". At any rate - the only ones left when the final war of Armageddon is called are those that refused to repent & cursed God (see Rev 16).

So.......I'm not afraid of Armageddon, but I sure do hope I'm not around to see the rise of the AntiChrist, being that I'm such a wimp-ass and all

56

How Do You Discipline YOUR Kids?

by MrMoe in

jw
friends

curious... how do you discipline your children and why?

spank or not to spank?

are your kids brats (and be honest here.).

Dawn

My two kids have completely different personalities, so I have to use different tactics. My son, now 16, was a hellion!! He has ADHD and was such a handful when he was younger.

When I would give him a time-out he'd refuse to sit for it so I had to sit there and hold him to make him sit down for a time-out. Spanking him only made him get angrier and out of control.

He was one of those kids that threw MOTHER OF ALL TANTRUMS all the time - in the grocery store, at home, at school. People probably thought I never disciplined him but I did - all the time, he just didn't care and was going to do what he wanted. But I kept it up.

Consistency is so important. By the time he was 8 years old he was a great kid, and now.....I don't remember the last time I had to discipline him at all. He's 16 and such a great kid. All I have to do is tell him that I would be disappointed and that's it - he won't do it.

My 4 year old daughter has a much quieter personality. Usually, just telling her not to do something is enough - but if more is needed I give her a time-out and that's all it takes.

I'm not one for spanking much - but I do if it's something really really bad - something that they could get hurt for - and I want them to never forget it - like running out into the street.

My grandmother told me to always balance your discipline with love. Kids have to have as much (or more in my opinion) positive actions from you as discipline. I believed her and it worked for my kids - so far anyways.

19

confirm your apostasy.....

by professor in

jw
friends

...and apparently get the t-shirt too!

http://cafepress.com/apostate .

edited by - professor on 19 june 2002 10:54:19.

Dawn

I agree with you Eduardo - although I am no longer a JW I do still love Christ.

One thing I really appreciate now - our freedom to express ourselves and accept others, or disagree with others, by our own decision. We have the freedom to decide what is acceptable to each of us and no longer have someone else telling us what is or is not acceptable. I love this freedom!!

Edited by - Dawn on 20 June 2002 2:59:25

17

It's my anniversary today!

by Princess in

jw
friends

i've been posting here a year!

i was out for five years before i started posting here and i have learned so much in the last year.. thanks to simon and angharad for hosting this fun place full of friends.. i am amazed at how quickly some have made jedi or even emperor and here i am still a master member.

i guess i just don't have as much to say, but i do read a lot and observe.. steve and i are really looking forward to meeting some of you in august!.

Dawn

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!

Yep - I love this forum - it has been so helpful to me.

15

Lookin' for a little advice tonight...

by wasasister in

jw
friends

i heard from an old friend today - she is a young woman i knew from my last congregation.

i was asked to attend her bible study because we shared a profession and it was thought we would have something in common.

in fact, she was a very shy young woman shy and attractive, but not in the traditional, flashy way of many witness girls.

Dawn

Your friend DEFINATELY needs to get some professional help - right away!! Take it from someone who was there - I want through a depression after I was DF'd and went to counseling and had to take medication for a while. Without the professional help I may not have gotten better.

Since she still believes in God you could also comfort her with a couple of scriptures: Psalm 130:2-6 - paraphrased "If you, O Lord, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness;.......v.v I wait for the Lord, my soul waits, and in his word I put my hope". The word of course is Jesus. And he told us after his resurrection that he was given all power to judge AND to forgive sins.

She thinks that because she has sinned she's doomed to death - she's forgotten that Jesus died for this very reason - so we can be forgiven. A lot of her feelings of worthlessness probably come from the abusive relationship - she doesn't believe she's worth being forgiven.

Maybe you could remind her about Abraham and Hagar. Abraham had sex with Hagar and got Hagar pregnant - even though Sarah put him up to it it's still adultery. But God didn't punish Hagar or Ishmael - in fact, he sent an Angel to take care of her and Ishmael when Abraham banished them.

As for opening up to her about your feelings - that's tough but I'd encourage you to do it. Sounds like she really needs the help now and has reached out to you in the past.