Posts by Ancientofdays

24

The Truth From the Bible About the 144,000

by AllTimeJeff in

i hope this wont take me too long, as being concise isnt my biggest talent.

a recent thread on the 144,000 made me put a couple of things together about the governing body.

these are the ones that claim to have authority from jehovah, to tell the over 6,00,000 that although we arent masters over anyones faith, these 150 items are absolutely prohibited for you to do.

Ancientofdays

Reading you posts , I've been going to focus another insubstantial claim.

Starting question is : how can the 144.000 sing in front of the 24 elders (Rev 14:3) if they are the same group ?

Answer to this question is found in the Revelation climax book (cap. 29, pag 201, par.10) is : they are the same group but from a different angle; the 144.000 are the remanent on the earth, instead the 24 elder are already death and in the heaven ...(moreless it says this , sorry I cannot quote as I have not CD-ROM in english). So the 144.000 are singing from the earth in front of their brother already in heaven.

BUT ... how can the 144.000 be on the earth if in Rev 14:1, in the same vision contest ,just 2 verses above, they have been seen together with the Lord on the Zion ????

that struggle me

27

GB's member Gerrit Losch on college in Monza (Italy) in 2005

by Ancientofdays in

i don't know if already posted this video, but it's really interesting .

i had a lot of rumor regarding this speech , but never listened my self before.

the speech is in italian, but some nice guy has subtitled in english.

Ancientofdays

I don't know if already posted this video, but it's really interesting . I had a lot of rumor regarding this speech , but never listened my self before. The speech is in italian, but some nice guy has subtitled in english. have fun ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R4f9ygxDbk

"..he bought a rifle , put on his mouth and pulled the trigger.."

19

christendom and war

by TIMBOB in

went to the bookstudy this morning.

the study talked about false religion and war and how other religions are killing each other and also jw's for not going to war.

there was many comment of how many early jw's served time or were executed for not going to war.

Ancientofdays

When I hear that "no JW never killed another JW in a war.." in a speech , I usually think at WTS claiming Abraam being the first JW ever.

So the Israelites were JWs. Now give a read at I and II King or the Chronicles (II Chro 13:15-17; 28:5-8) books and find out how many JWs were engaged in wars.

And if was fratricide too. The 10 tribes versus the 2 tribes ..JWs versus JWs.

19

1935 A Gentle Reminder

by Inkie in

.. it must not be forgotten that back in the early 1900's the society taught that world war i was the beginning of the great tribulation and when wwi ended--that was the "unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved" and it was the "these are the ones that come out of the great tribulation" as recorded by the apostle john in his revelation.

when wwii started it was the great tribulation commencing again such that all of those jw's between the two world wars belonged to the great crowd.

in 1968 at the peace on earth international convention, the society changed its teaching and made the great tribulation a yet future event.

Ancientofdays

That's really great point, I never realised this !!

It must not be forgotten that back in the early 1900's the Society taught that World War I was the beginning of the Great Tribulation and when WWI ended--that was the "unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved" AND it was the "these are the ones that come out of the Great Tribulation" as recorded by the apostle John in his Revelation. When WWII started it was the Great Tribulation commencing again such that all of those JW's between the two world wars belonged to the Great Crowd.

When you say early 1900's , you mean Russel's Watchtower ? Do you have quotation or reference. I have WT until 1916 in .pdf format, I'd like to find it. thanks

12

How does GB keep the control not sitting in the board of the Inc.?

by Ancientofdays in

i think you already discussed this.

any link or comments on it ?

Ancientofdays

Hey Blondie ... you changed avatar ? Nice one !

I see your point on the chain control jerarchy, and agree that this give absolute preminence to the GB for spiritual matter, bible interpretation , doctrine and so on. But my question was more related on how the GB can keep control of the "business" issue. Let take as an example , the decision on reduce publication of WT and Awake, or the conversion of the shipping center into residential building. The above involves "business" strategy and lots of money ... Before the company deliberate for such direction , there must be discussions , project plan detailed , impact analisys and a final votation to deliberate a decision. Because the GB does not sit on the board of directors in any of the various Inc., I wonder how can they control such decisions or influence who sign-off the paper contract.

I know that , maybe we can only speculate regard this ...

12

How does GB keep the control not sitting in the board of the Inc.?

by Ancientofdays in

i think you already discussed this.

any link or comments on it ?

Ancientofdays

I think you already discussed this. Any link or comments on it ?

5

Insurance coverage for the volunteer workers

by Ancientofdays in

last week in italy a brothers died in the assembly hall whyle working as a voluntary.

he was 65 , and was working at six meter from the floor

right now i'm having a debate on a local forum with some jws on the matter of the insurance coverage for the unpaid workers.

Ancientofdays

Last week in Italy a brothers died in the assembly hall whyle working as a voluntary.

He was 65 , and was working at six meter from the floor

Right now I'm having a debate on a local forum with some JWs on the matter of the insurance coverage for the unpaid workers. From what I know WTS doesn't care so much for the bros , and doesn't spend any money i any insurance plan. But the JWs says there'a a worldwide insurance plan called KHAA for protection against loss or incident during the work in the Kingdom hall or assembley hal etc. etc.

Any of you knows what's the status ? Is there insurance coverage in USA or in your country ? thanks

24

1919 Appointment

by garybuss in

when jesus appointed the watch tower corporation as his only channel on earth in 1919, what did he appoint?

did he appoint the people?

they're all dead now.. did he appoint the printing equipment?

Ancientofdays

What real thing that still exists today did Jesus appoint?

He did appoint the Brooklyn area in NY ...

6

Discovery Channel: Est. 6.5 Million in Catacombs- Wouldn't the annointed...

by Lady Liberty in

hello all and happy tuesday!.

in light of the recent discussion on the 144,000, i thought i would mention a program recently aired on the discovery channel.

it is estimated 6.5 million were laid to rest there.

Ancientofdays

Hi LL, that's a very good point. I have tried many time to make light on the illogical assumption that only (less than) 144.000 true cristian were found until 1935, with my wife. But I've never been able to find out a specific christian growth statistic and number from 33 AC till 150 AC. I would think not later than 150 AC will be acceptable for JW , because as you know they consider apostasy age from just after John died until Russel time. Is somebody aware of cristian estimation growth in that period ?

59

Evaluating Raymond Franz

by greendawn in

what do you think of ray(mond) franz?

i have seen here some people critisise him as not being a really heartfelt opponent of the wts, but my view is that he was quite honest about his expressed motives against the cult.

with his revelations he gave a lot of momentum to the ex jw movement (the apostate organisation according to the jws) and offered valuable assistance to those seeking to shake off the ideological and social dependance on the oppressive cult.

Ancientofdays

Milestone. I think any JWs searching for freedom and truth has this feeling, after reading his books. I'm hoping Ray can read this 3rd with my message, and my thanks. In Italy ISoCF is rare , the editor stopped to print it out. But I have few copies , and whenever I can I address JW friends to read it.