Posts by beaches

34

Need a rebutal to elders!!!!!!!!!

by beaches in

let me preface this by saying i wanted to fade quietly........ i went to the mall and my husband called me on my cell to let me know 2 elders had stopped by (sun after mtg).

he told them that we had some questions and were looking into things.

they of course asked "like what kind of things".

beaches

Thanks SO much Again!!!

I am getting the feeling that all situations are different when it comes to how to reason w/ elders, and I am just going to have to wait until hubby's ready to go. He's not. Asked him what he expected from this "get together". He said he just wanted to listen to what they had to say. I asked if he was going to have anything printed out to prove UN issue since they didn't know about it. He said no, he just wants to listen to what they have to say. I think I'm going to cry. At this point I will sit w/ them so as not to arouse elder suspition and so I can hear their reasoning to him in order to try to refute it later. I will not make a peep, though. This is his questioning, not mine.

AK Jeff - thank you, I had already come across that site and read it myself.

Hellrider - Thank you for your article. That is very interesting and I might be able to get hubby to read it since he has been on that site before.

jwfacts - Thanks for thos links. Hubby won't read "apostate" things yet. I have to present them on my own. I appreciate your offer for help:)

ballistic - your post!LOL! You can be any thing you want to be in never-never land

34

Need a rebutal to elders!!!!!!!!!

by beaches in

let me preface this by saying i wanted to fade quietly........ i went to the mall and my husband called me on my cell to let me know 2 elders had stopped by (sun after mtg).

he told them that we had some questions and were looking into things.

they of course asked "like what kind of things".

beaches

Thank you everyone!

I REALLY appreciate the help and encouragement along with your sharing of research and experiences. It is such a help to us "newbies" in order to get our thoughts together as we try to "dissengage". Everyone is giving such GOOD information that I can really use!!!

I am going to talk to hubby tonight and see what his responses will be to elders and what he is expecting as an outcome to this. My role in this meeting will be to listen and only back up his points if he looses his line of thought or reasoning. At this point I really don't care what reasoning they use, this org is a crock and I ain't a drone.

jeeprube - What a coincidence, I already had my folders out and am starting to fill them with undisputable info. Thank you for your points. i went to freeminds and will continue visiting.

Legolas - thank for the link. I emailed to hubby

undercover - thanks for the heads-up. Didn't think of that wording issue.

A Paduan - I can see the final question they will ask to that line of questioning "Do you believe this is God spirit annointed/directed organization on earth"

34

Need a rebutal to elders!!!!!!!!!

by beaches in

let me preface this by saying i wanted to fade quietly........ i went to the mall and my husband called me on my cell to let me know 2 elders had stopped by (sun after mtg).

he told them that we had some questions and were looking into things.

they of course asked "like what kind of things".

beaches

Hi everyone,

Let me preface this by saying I wanted to fade quietly.......

I went to the mall and my husband called me on my cell to let me know 2 elders had stopped by (Sun after mtg). He told them that we had some questions and were looking into things. They of course asked "like what kind of things". He mentioned the 607 chronology and the WTS being a part of the UN. To that one elder responded - "They were never a part of the UN!". To which hubby responded yes and there is proof. He also brought up about the possiblity of this not being the "truth". They asked if you weren't to be in this organisation where would you go? His response was that he didn't even know if we had to be part of any organization and maybe that isn't what we should be doing as a christian. Elder said in response that if we look in the bible it will tell us that in heaven Jeh has organization. It is him, then Jesus, then 144,000 then different angels have different levels and jobs. Do we think that if Jeh has made sure there is org in heaven that he would let his people scatter about with all different beliefs. They said (of course) that they would like to "get together" with both of us and will see us at the memorial on wed.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Any way, hubby had to think about the Org in Heaven comment and said to me "he made sense". Meanwhile I am asking him why he opened his mouth in the first place because now they will be on our ass like an ingrown hair!!! We talked later that night and he said that if this was a decision that was to be made, he wanted it taken care of and the book shut. He didn't want our daughter to feel like she had to hide saying things to his parents and that was no way to raise her. I agree.

My question is - I am so gone from this religion, I don't even know how I feel about the bible anymore and I really don't care what they have to show me about any organization in heaven, hell or earth. I need rebutal for hubby to their claims of org in heaven so to should there be one on earth...god would let his people run around willy-nilly, etc...I told him that is there interpretation of Bible just as other religions have there own. I really couldn't think because I was still in shock that he even said anything to Them.

He knows the org is wrong on a lot of things and has told his sister that he can prove them wrong on more things than he can prove them right (0). But, he got mad at me for making his sis uncomfortable by bring a book on different religions to her house when we slept over. I was just reading it a night in the privacy of our guest bedroom, but they use that as thier tv room sometimes and they saw it and looked disgusted. He felt uncomfortable and didn't go to our daugters friends birthday, but did research on his own and came to the conclusion they're not wrong. I don't think he is completely sure of leaving and that is why I think the Elders might be able to convince him on something and then I'm back to square 1 or 2.

7

Just wondering what you think

by beaches in

i am on my journey of discovery, and have lots of ideas going through my head abou the bible.

i am just wondering what different people on this board have come to the conclusion or what stage of thinking are they at about what role the bible plays in our lives.. my random floating thoughts and ideas:.

1) is inspired and gods message to us, but nt cancels all "laws" and we are just to follow jesus and god and be true christians not part of any religion.. 2) bible is book of stories that people way-back-when wrote in order to pass down verbalized morals and illustrations in ot.

beaches

I am on my journey of discovery, and have lots of ideas going through my head abou the bible. I am just wondering what different people on this board have come to the conclusion or what stage of thinking are they at about what role the Bible plays in our lives.

My random floating thoughts and ideas:

1) Is inspired and Gods message to us, but NT cancels all "laws" and we are just to follow Jesus and God and be true Christians not part of any religion.

2) Bible is book of stories that people way-back-when wrote in order to pass down verbalized morals and illustrations in OT. NT is development of new spiritual belief and embraced by Christians in order to support thier beliefs.

3) Bible is another way of "finding God" and understanding his relationship w/ Him. On same level as Koran, teachings of Budda, etc. Just a way of making sense of there possibly being God(s). These were all written down to let generations learn the lessons and stories of ancestors.

4) Bible is another book written by people that were scared of the "unknown" eg. space, earthquakes, oceans, cultures and had to find some way to explain everything.

I haven't even begun to get to the end of this journey, but just interested...

29

The death of the Watchtower pre-study

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

who is old enough to remember when witnesses used eagerly to meet on a friday or saturday night to "pre-study" the watchtower in groups: reading paragraphs, underlining, reading scriptures (sometimes)?.

what happened to that, does anyone still do it anywhere?

i think witnesses are just not as enthusiastic about the "truth" as they used to be.

beaches

I'm too young to remember any pre-study, but I did want to comment to dozy about- "I don't really buy into the "WTS are afraid of brothers studying together seperately" argument - I think it is just another sign of a lack of enthusiasm for studying nowadays".

I remember about 10-13 yrs ago (OMG! Am I that old!) 3 young MS (2 were elders sons and "made" ms RIGHT out of high school) were getting together to read the bible and JUST the bible and discuss whatever they read that week. That was KILLED QUICKLY. They were told that they could not continue doing that. Us of the Rn'F were spreading that one around definately made it sound like they could go "apostate" any moment w/out guidance from any WTS pubs. I remember imagining them hudled around the bible in a darkened room with 1 light bulb shining over them and sinisterly discussing crazy devilish ideas. Pretty funny memory:)

13

Please help me. Advice re. children

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i have been out for a few months & have been doing the supportive role for my wife who still goes to most meetings and is taking the lead with our 2 kids.

the supportive role has cushioned the mental anguish for my wife and i would not have wanted to be frank about my disbelief in god & the wts, it would have put a tremendous strain on our relationship.

at the moment she is hoping i will come back.

beaches

Ah yes, I was waiting to see when this thread would pop up. I am in kinda same spot. I am not planning on ever re-believing this is the "Truth" and not just another man made religion. Now, Hubby still is hanging in there because his whole family aren't leaving anytime soon. We have a 4 yr old and have started tentative talks about different issues. I have told him I have no problem w/ blood, birthdays, M&F day and other etc. holidays that aren't really "all that based in any religion". We just had the birthday discussion because one of her friends is having a birthday this weekend. He started doing research on his own because I warned him I was bringing her. He obviosly found nothing in the bible to go against them and even felt that Job and Jacob(?) pointed to birthdays being celebrated and that this was a typical celebration people did back then. I brought out the point that I did my own resaerch and could understand if the society focused on the pagan origins of cake, candles saying happy b-day, but they didn't. Then came the Pinata discussion and the fact that if WTS is okay with celebrations that used to have "pagan" meaning but don't anymore, I felt b-days came under this group. Asked him outright if he was bothered by her going. "I'm not going" was response. I said "I didn't expect you to since it's at Libby LU, but you didn't answer my initial question" He changed subject. He's just scared because we were both raised in "truth". I gave him room to breath.

I plan on just dropping hints and discussions like that as things come up. I am only focusing on the little things now. I haven't even figured out big things yet myself:) If wife is liberal, would she do her own research on issues with the internet? I send e-mails to hubby that deal with what he is interested in eg -607, UN, bible that aren't very sensationalized and read like a well researched paper.

Also, in pre-school they really focus on holidays since they are so young and it fills up a day. I haven't kept her out of any school days due to parties. She comes home w/ her shamrocks and bunnies. He says nothing.

You know your wife and what to push and when to back off. Take it a day at a time, because when I started freaking out about "what will I do when..." I got sick. It is really alot easier to deal with it "in due season".