Posts by sparky1

34

A Kindlier More Gentle Jehovah?

by sparky1 in

"for you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because jehovah, whose name is jealous, he is a jealous god," exodus 34:14 nwt 1984 edition.

"you must not bow down to another god, for jehovah is known for requiring exclusive devotion.

yes, he is a god who requires exclusive devotion.

sparky1

"I can't vouch for all the changes, but this seems to take the wind out of the sails of all the hyperbolic claims that the Society was going to dumb down the wording, or make radical changes to the translation. I wholeheartedly AGREE WITH THE CHANGES (capitals mine) I've seen so far, as they reflect modern English usage better, and don't seem to sacrifice accuracy for readability." posted under MY HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE AGM "Apognophos" 10/06/2013

I can see why you question my post. It seems to me that you have already made up your mind about the NWT 2013 revised edition.Possibly no amount of critical thinking or investigating source material will cause you to see things differently. Merriam-Webster produces one of the most comprehensive and authoritative dictionaries in print and online. At least I try to back up my contentions with material based on facts and reliable sources. I see nothing in your post of 10/06/2013 to prove why the NWT 2013 revised edition is superior to the older version or any other translation for that matter. You only offer your opinion that 'they reflect modern English usage better' and 'don't seem to sacrifice accuracy for readability'. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

Now a little humor based on your observations and mine:

Mr. Jones goes to court for murdering his wife whom he loved and trused above all else. He caught her having an affair with his best friend and killed her on the spot. The trial goes as follows:

Prosecuting Attorney: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. I mean to prove today that Mr. Jones murdered his wife in a fit of JEALOUS rage when he found her making love to another man.

Defense Attorney: I object, Your Honor.

Judge: Your objection Mr. Defense attorney?

Defense Attorney: Yes Your Honor. My client did indeed kill his wife. But he is not guilty by reason that he was showing her that he was "REQUIRING EXCLUSIVE DEVOTION".

Judge: I see. Thank you for explaining this to me in more understandable, modern English. Case dismissed.

Prosecuting Attorney: (Under his breath) Oh shit! This job was so much easier when people just said what they meant and dealt with the facts.

(Apognophos please critique my post on A Sphere is Not a Circle. Your rebuttal MUST contain facts only or opinion backed up by accepted sources)

60

A Sphere is Not a Circle

by AK - Jeff in

this thread was inspired by the poster here with that moniker.

that name, for the first time in my life, caused me to think deeply about the scriptural real meaning of the phrase used in isaiah, often used by biblical defenders to show it's inspiration by god.. i googled the phrase, and among other hits, found this little blogspace with comments that echoed my thought on the matter.. http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2008/12/what-you-really-think-a-sphere-is-a-circle-you-really-think-that/.

found it interesting.. jeff.

sparky1

I wanted to bump this thread back up to continue to show the blantant intellectual dishonesty of the 'scholarly' translators of the NWT revised 2013 edition.

In the opening section of the NWT revised 2013 edition it asks in Question 4: "Is the Bible scientifically accurate?". Then it directs you to page 989 where you can look up ISAIAH 40:22 which says: "There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth." Then you are directed to a footnote for the word circle which states it can mean "Or "sphere"". The implication is that Jehovahs true servants have known all along that the earth is round and not flat.

STRONGS EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE gives the meaning for the Hebrew word khoog as used in this scripture as follows:khoog:a circle:- circle, circuit, compass

The meaning is what it is. Circle, nothing more and nothing less. Is it possible that no Hebrew word exists that would describe a ball like or sphere type structure and therefore it was necessary to use the word khoog and interpret its meaning from the scriptures context?

ISAIAH 22:18 could shed some light on this. It says:"He will certainly wrap you up tightly and hurl you like a BALL (italics mine) into a wide land."

STRONGS EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE gives the meaning for the Hebrew word dure as used in this scripture as follows:dure from 1752- a circle, ball or pile-ball, turn, round about.

My contention is that it is dishonest of Watchtower 'scholars and theologians' to continue this scientific farce and perpetuate the myth when they must know full well that the word for something 'ball shaped and spherelike' is separate and distinct from the word that ONLY means a circle. ISAIAH himself must have known this since he supposedly wrote the book that bears his name. Scientific fact or religious obfuscation? If there is a philologist or Hebrew scholar that can prove my contention incorrect than I will welcome the facts and correct my understanding.

34

A Kindlier More Gentle Jehovah?

by sparky1 in

"for you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because jehovah, whose name is jealous, he is a jealous god," exodus 34:14 nwt 1984 edition.

"you must not bow down to another god, for jehovah is known for requiring exclusive devotion.

yes, he is a god who requires exclusive devotion.

sparky1

Mirriam-Webster.com defines Jealous as follows: adjective 1. Intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness

Synonyms: Possesive

Related words: Controlling, demanding, domineering, grasping,; covetous, envious, invidious, jaundiced;distrustful, mistrustful, suspicious; overprotective, protective. (Taken from M-W.com description of the meaning of jealousy)

Which contains more emotional impact? The word jealous or the phrase 'requiring exclusive devotion'? At any rate you missed the entire point of my post.

The self appointed 'scholars' that translated the New World Translation Revised 2013 version are 'bastardizing' the Bible to fit their own preconceived theological viewpoint under the guise of 'modernizing the language' of this translation. George Ricker Berry's INTERLINEAR HEBREW-ENGLISH OLD TESTAMENT on page 371 translates word for word the following: "God a, name his [is] jealous" EXODOUS 34:14. How in the name of intellectual honesty can you change the original phrase,"God a, name his [is] jealous" into "Yes, he is a God who requires exclusive devotion"?

23

How would you summarize the basic message of the Watchtower versus the Bible?

by Fernando in

for me personally:.

watchtower - don't sin, don't question, don't think, don't reason, don't leave, or god will kill you in hell the big a.. bible - all dysfunction aka the "bad news" has been legally defeated by the "good news".. (i believe we are therefore free to begin naturally and progressively transitioning from a primitive type-0 civilisation if and when we choose to and when consensus reaches critical mass.

we will become a more advanced type-1 civilisation in the next 100 years according to michio kaku in "physics of the future".).

sparky1

Cofty asks a very important question, "Why do people of faith always speak in metaphors"? I think his answer to his own question is priceless, "Could it be because there is actually nothing to say?". Thomas Szasz took this idea one step further. He said, "Although linguistic clarification is valuable for individuals who want to think clearly, it is not useful for people whose social institutions rest on the unexamined, literal use of language." "Religion is, among other things, the institutionalized denial of the human foundations of meaning and of the finiteness of life; the person who seeks transcendental meaning and rejects the reality of death can thus theologize life and entrust its management to clerical professionals."

34

A Kindlier More Gentle Jehovah?

by sparky1 in

"for you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because jehovah, whose name is jealous, he is a jealous god," exodus 34:14 nwt 1984 edition.

"you must not bow down to another god, for jehovah is known for requiring exclusive devotion.

yes, he is a god who requires exclusive devotion.

sparky1

"For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God," EXODUS 34:14 NWT 1984 edition

"You must not bow down to another god, for Jehovah is known for requiring exclusive devotion. Yes, he is a God who requires exclusive devotion." EXODUS 34:14 NWT 2013 edition

The word jealous used in this scripture is from the original Hebrew word kan-naw' which strictly means JEALOUS. STRONGS CONCORDANCE 1961 edition gives the meaning for kan-naw' as follows: from 7065;jealous:-jealous. The word kan-naw' is from the root kaw-naw' which carries the meaning of: a prim. root: to be (caus. make) zealous, i.e. (in a bad sense) jealous or envious; -(be) envy(-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous(-y), X very, (be) zeal(-ous).

So although the word kaw-naw' can be nuanced and its meaning can vary slightly according to the context of its use in scripture, the word kan-naw' has a very specific meaning of jealousy and that is all it means.

How then did the 'scholars' that translated this new NEW WORLD TRANSLATION (2013 edition) make the intellectual jump of converting the word JEALOUS into the phrase 'REQUIRING EXCLUSIVE DEVOTION'? My contention is that it is another case of their intellectual dishonesty and that they try to make the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION fit their doctrines and preconcieved religious notions and interpretations.

The old saying goes: In the beginning God created man and then man returned the favor.

21

Born In JWs: Were You Abused According to the CDC?

by ABibleStudent in

child abuse in the usa.

child abuse is the physical, sexual or emotional maltreatment or neglect of a child or children.

in the united states, the centers for disease control and prevention (cdc) and the department for children and families (dcf) define child maltreatment as any act or series of acts of commission or omission by a parent or other caregiver that results in harm, potential for harm, or threat of harm to a child.

sparky1

EmptyInside, the head beating experience was fairly traumatic for me. I was around 11 or 12 years old when this happened and I was acting up on the way to the meeting. My mother drew blood and I have a scar to this day. No visit to the doctor either. Not to downplay my experiences but my mother used to whip 2 of my sisters on their legs with an electrical extension cord. Once I saw her BREAK a dinner plate over my oldest sisters head and knock her out cold. Years later my sister told me that my mother did this to her TWICE. RELIGION makes some people WORSE not BETTER.

30

Dr. Kent Bradly and Dr. Nancy Writebol's healings Prove to me there is a God!

by BucketShopBill in

i get tired of using the argument of "the mystery of evil" to attack god but where are we when we see heroic acts of godly courage from great humans like dr. kent bradly and dr. nancy writebols wonderful works of love?

did you listen to dr. kent bradley's concern and loving compassion for west africa?

he's not angry superstitious mobs destroyed several make-shift medical facilities to treat victims of ebola, no, dr. bradly implored the world to "help save west africa".

sparky1

"I KNOW THERE IS A GOD!" I CAN SEE GOD IN DR. SEUSS' EYES. IT MUST BE TRUE AFTER ALL HE IS A DOCTOR ISN'T HE?

21

Born In JWs: Were You Abused According to the CDC?

by ABibleStudent in

child abuse in the usa.

child abuse is the physical, sexual or emotional maltreatment or neglect of a child or children.

in the united states, the centers for disease control and prevention (cdc) and the department for children and families (dcf) define child maltreatment as any act or series of acts of commission or omission by a parent or other caregiver that results in harm, potential for harm, or threat of harm to a child.

sparky1

We have something in common Balaamsass2. I have a scar on my head behind one of my ears where my mother beat the 'hell' out of me me with her 'low heeled' dress shoe. Many of the 'born ins' that I knew have been victims of mental, emotional, physical, sexual and spiritual violence. It seems to me that being a Jehovahs Witness brings out the worst in some parents rather than their 'better nature'. Being the youngest child I didn't get the most physical abuse from my mother (and I certainly got my share) but I believe that I got the most psychological abuse. Pete Zahut 'hit the nail on the head' with his comment 'the people they see every day are going to turn on them and hand them over to the authoritites to be tortured and will themselves later will be killed by God.' Like constantly dripping water, many young witness children are reminded over and over again that Jehovah will destroy them for even the smallest of infractions and that they will never see their family and friends again. I cannot EVER recall my mother telling me that she loved me or my siblings. Once I asked her about this and why she never said 'I love you' to us. Her answer was 'of course I love you '. So I asked her to say 'I love you' to me. Her reaction was to say to me 'You know I love you' and walk away. My heart goes out to anyone posting here that was raised by mentally, emotionally and spiritually unbalanced Jehovahs Witness parents.

32

November 2014 WT - Points out the fact that Knorr supported false teachings.

by objectivetruth in

- it's amazing to track the confusion and stupidity contained in wt articles.

- in only one watchtower you can find multiple contradictory statements, and representations of truth that are simply lies made up on the fly.

- as an example the nov,15 2014 wt has the following quotes : -.

sparky1

One of Knorrs' nicknames was "Brownie". Of course he was going to lap up every 'teaching' of the Judge no matter how foolish.

4

MORRIS III Vietnam: Where did he serve? When? Which killing round was he involved in?

by hamsterbait in

just asking, as in a talk he gave last year he decribes in great detail slaughtered bodies.

did he take part in mass killings of civilians?

it might explain why he is so desensitised to vicious comments and murderous hate speach, and wants to be in the sky with his homicidal psycho pal..

sparky1

Or he was C.P.O. Morris in charge of Hot Dog rations at the mess tent. Maybe that is where he got the idea for this gem of a talk.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/.../Anthony-Morris-The-3rd-Talks-About-Human-Hot-Dogs-At-Armageddon-There-Will-Be-No-Picnic-For-Survivors