Posts by rassillon

7

Re: ThirdWitness: Where did Robert King and Tim Kline mess up?

by sf in

jw
friends

just a little history and perhaps why 3rd witness is here now:.

wt and rk (robert king).

it was at this point that 3w discovered a book called "the report".

rassillon

Yeah, fullofdoubtnow on the 607 thread he just won't answer a direct question. he won't say who he is answering. I am waiting to see if he will answer directly my last post (he has not last I checked). I would say that I am not so interested in debating but discussing facts, and all he does is infer something and say we are ignoring the bible or think it is wrong, which I don't. all I ask is that we put all the FACTS out on the table without the rhetoric and devoid of human interpretation of the scriptures and just see what they say. About the whold RK-TK-3RDW thing. RK - is an idiot, he would not last 10min in a real life debate face to face. TK - I don't know much about him. 3RDW - He is proving that he is not honest is discussing things, I am currently an "active JW" and am interested in TRUTH above all else and if anyone believes Jehovah or God whichever you prefer is the God of Truth there should be no fear in pursuing truth. I think 3RDW got scared when he got taken in by the bafoon of the apostates and went running back to mother fearing that he had fell into the trap the GB scares everyone about "BOO". So to vindicate himself he has become an ardent defender of the JW/Society NO MATTER WHAT for fear that he may follow after a BAFOON again. Tip for 3RDW, DON'T FOLLOW MEN - (Psalm 146:3) 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. The GB are men right? -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness wrote:

Additionally, there is a vast difference in the prophecy about Tyre's destruction and the prophecy about Egypt's 40 year desolation. The Bible clearly shows that Egypt's crowd would cease by Neb and thus be without inhabitant because of Neb's conquest. The Bible does not show that Neb would be the one to destroy Tyre to the point of it never being rebuilt. It shows he would bring much destruction and gather spoil from Tyre but that is all. But again, I am utterly amazed that some here are forced to argue that the Bible's prophecies are inaccurate just so you can argue that JWs are wrong. It is pretty clear what some of the motives are here and it is not to find the truths of the Bible. Anyway, I'm sure that those honest truth seekers can see the feeble arguments made by proponents of 587. Arguments which ultimately involve the inaccuracy of the Bible. So if you want to tie our hands and not let us use the Bible then just maybe Jesus really is Jehovah also. My goal is to reach those JWs who still believe the Bible is the reliable and accurate word of God but have been temporarily fooled (as I was once) by apostate untruths.

thirdwitness

,

You fail to answer me directly and specifically address my points.

I will give you another chance.

Please specifically

address the points I am going to make.

AND

Please specifically

state at the top of your post that it is a response to me.

If you cannot do this, I can only believe that it is because of one of the reasons as follows

1.) You can't

2.) You are unable to comprehend the simple logic which I am using.

3.) You are unwilling to because it would force you to agree that this argument does not support your belief and that you must be wrong.

(FIRST) - In the following scripture is specifically states that Nebuchadrezzar would be the one to cause the "crowd of Egypt to cease". The scripture is one thought, that which Jehovah spoke by means of his prophet.

(Ezekiel 30:10-12) 10 "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘I will also cause the crowd of Egypt to cease by the hand of Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon. 11 He and his people with him, the tyrants of [the] nations, are being brought in to reduce the land to ruin. And they must draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. 12 And I will make the Nile canals dry ground and will sell the land into the hand of bad men, and I will cause the land and its fullness to be desolated by the hand of strangers. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken.’

(SECOND) - In the following scripture we find similarly one thought which was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet. This ONE thought indicates the entire prophecy about Tyre, that Nebuchadrezzar would come against Tyre...(lots of bad stuff for Tyre)...[culminating in] And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag.

(Ezekiel 26:7-14) 7 "For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am bringing against Tyre Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon from the north, a king of kings, with horses and war chariots and cavalrymen and a congregation, even a multitudinous people. 8 Your dependent towns in the field he will kill even with the sword, and he must make against you a siege wall and throw up against you a siege rampart and raise up against you a large shield; 9 and the strike of his attack engine he will direct against your walls, and your towers he will pull down, with his swords. 10 Owing to the heaving mass of his horses their dust will cover you. Owing to the sound of cavalryman and wheel and war chariot your walls will rock, when he comes in through your gates, as in the cases of entering into a city opened by breaches. 11 With the hoofs of his horses he will trample down all your streets. Your people he will kill even with the sword, and to the earth your own pillars of strength will go down. 12 And they will certainly spoil your resources and plunder your sales goods, and tear down your walls, and your desirable houses they will pull down. And your stones and your woodwork and your dust they will place in the very midst of the water.’ 13 "‘And I will cause the turmoil of your singing to cease, and the very sound of your harps will be heard no more. 14 And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become. Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

(THIRD) - These are quotes from the bible. NO WHERE in these quotes nor in the rest of the book of Ezekiel is there anything which indicates that one prophecy is more TIME SPECIFIC than the other.

(FOURTH) - The WTB&TS agrees that the Tyre prophecy did not have ultimate fulfillment until a couple of hundred years later.

(FIFTH) - Thus, you have NO SCRIPTURAL basis for stating that one prophecy MUST take place during a specific time and the other prophecy DOES NOT.

(SIXTH) - If you disagree, please provide SPECIFIC SCRIPTURAL proof.

If for some reason you do not understand what I have written. Please Specifically state what you don't understand AND why.

Awaiting your response.

-r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness, you answered

It is asked: WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period. ; ;The answer is in the Bible. Ezekiel 30:10 Ezekiel 30:10 confirms that it is Nebuchadnezzar who is to remove all the people from that land. “I will also cause the crowd of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon.” So the desolation had to occur before Neb's death.

But Ezekiel states the following about Tyre.

(Ezekiel 26:7-14) 7

"For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am bringing against Tyre Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon from the north, a king of kings, with horses and war chariots and cavalrymen and a congregation, even a multitudinous people. 8 Your dependent towns in the field he will kill even with the sword, and he must make against you a siege wall and throw up against you a siege rampart and raise up against you a large shield; 9 and the strike of his attack engine he will direct against your walls, and your towers he will pull down, with his swords. 10 Owing to the heaving mass of his horses their dust will cover you. Owing to the sound of cavalryman and wheel and war chariot your walls will rock, when he comes in through your gates, as in the cases of entering into a city opened by breaches. 11 With the hoofs of his horses he will trample down all your streets. Your people he will kill even with the sword, and to the earth your own pillars of strength will go down. 12 And they will certainly spoil your resources and plunder your sales goods, and tear down your walls, and your desirable houses they will pull down. And your stones and your woodwork and your dust they will place in the very midst of the water.’ 13 "‘And I will cause the turmoil of your singing to cease, and the very sound of your harps will be heard no more. 14 And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become. Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. So I ask yet again, If it is ok for Tyre's prophecy to be ultimatly fufilled later than this period WHY is the same not ok for Egypt? You can't apply one rule for one and a different one for another just to suit your needs or desires. Please answer. -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness Please Answer

thirdwitness, Answer me this question. Fact: The prophecy about Tyre did not get fufilled during this time period. In fact the Insight book indicates it did not until several hundred years later. WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period. AND no there is nothing in EZEKIEL which makes it a necessity, I have read the whole book, and all of the scriptures in context are no more specific about this prophecy than the one about TYRE. ?

Why does it have to be literal? Why did it have to happen during this period of time? Your answers would be appreciated! Alan You really have a way of putting things. A great job as always getting down to the core of the argument. As usual you can't get a straight response from a pro-witness. Instead of making real points, TW makes inferences and uses words like "silly" to belittle arguments he does not want to address head on. come on thirdwitness, debate on a level playing field. Don't run behind the false argument that "well you might as well say the whole bible is wrong and Jehovah too" when in fact it would be a case of "the person interpreting what was written would be the one wrong and just thinking too much of their own ability of knowing what GOD meant" regards, -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness, Answer me this question. Fact: The prophecy about Tyre did not get fufilled during this time period. In fact the Insight book indicates it did not until several hundred years later. WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period. AND no there is nothing in EZEKIEL which makes it a necessity, I have read the whole book, and all of the scriptures in context are no more specific about this prophecy than the one about TYRE. ?

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

One minor point TW, are you going to tell me that Egypt was completely desolated (according to the prophecy, completely desolated) then one year after that prophecy of "complete" desolation ends, they had an army that was large enough that a world power would make an alliance with them?

26

Complete Audio Recordings of 2006 DC Talks

by AlanF in

i came upon the following link to a complete set of windows media compatible audio recordings of this summer's district convention talks:.

http://www.evanjhoush.com/wtb&ts/2006/deliverance.at.hand.district.convention/.

enjoy!.

rassillon

VM44, looks like it was fixed, but not there is an a part and b part? Thanks Alan.

10

God's name ??

by Ade in

i know this has probably been covered before, if so i apologize for dragging it up again.

1) is it acceptable just because its an accepted pronunciation to call god je-ho-vah

2) should the witnesses constantly be saying jehovah this and jehovah that, as it seems to me to be taking up gods name ( if it is correct ) in a worthless way.

rassillon

This is an interesting subject, at least to me.... I have given this a great deal of thought. The conclusion I have come up with is that the pronuciation really doesn't matter if you are honestly trying to get it right. Your point about getting irritated about a mispronunciation I would have to take exception to. I cannot believe in a god who would be that petty. Given the example of a parent with a child learning to speak, the child trys to say daddy but says da-da or tries to say Richard, but says ri-ru....I doubt the father would care what came out but would be over joyed about the attempt for his child to communicate with him. As for is is appropriate to use God's name or a title since he is our Heavenly Father. The bible clearly states that he wants to be our friend too, so I cannot believe he would find displeasure in any attempt. To think otherwise would be to put God in a box and define what he is willing/happy to do based on our own limited perception. For those that think Jehovah is not the right way to pronunce God's name and think that Ya-weh or Ya-heh-oh-wa or whatever, would you not also think that Jesus name should be pronounced Ya-hosh-a-wa or whatever it actually is and not the anglecanized pronucniation of a german translation of a greek transliteration? Anyway, I think since none of us know, we should not try to force our opinion on anyone else. If someone wants to use it and is being genuine I doubt God cares. -r

13

Elders/MS, what would you do?

by Sacchiel in

jw
friends

i understand there are active elders and ministerial servants on these boards.

if a witness spoke with you in private about doubts/questions they have about wts doctrine or the like, would you encourage that person to continue investigating?

what if that witness outright declared the organization as a wicked or not directed by god?.

rassillon

Did some of you actually read the original question? I am a MS and I would explain to them that if they are to believe that they have the truth they should do what research they felt necessary to prove that to themselves. I would tell them to be balanced about the research and not to go looking to prove a particular point, that if they did this the truth of matters would be obvious. I would encourage them to be cautious who they talked to about their research until they were done and absolutly sure of what they have found since they would not want to harm others faith with something they were half cocked on. I would lastly reminde them of the scripture which states "if God is for us who can be against us" and to report back when they were done. -r

9

Ann Coulter vs. Jeremy Paxman (head banging time)

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

good to see ann coulter treated with the contempt she deserves:.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/bb_rm_fs.stm?news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=4679986.

a bit more realistic than the o'reilly and hannity and colmes exhanges she regularly enjoys.

rassillon

I think it is good to have arrogant individuals on the right to balance the arrogant individuals on the left. It sure does seem though that the left crys and whines a lot more. I am stuck somewhere in the middle