Posts by dedalus

It was a fine post and you shouldn't have to apologize for anything. Someone quickly pointed out that it was a parody, but evidently other posters were trigger-happy and didn't bother reading what others had already written. It's their own fault they didn't "get" it.

It was an excellent parody because I almost believed it -- only there were some clues along the way.

I've had angry parents call me up when I assigned their teenagers Swift's "A Modest Proposal" for homework. Some people are simply unable to perceive irony, I guess.

Dedalus

44

Dateline Aftermath

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

the result of the airing of the dateline program has been very positive.

dateline program will no doubt air again in reruns and may get further coverage soon.

there have been many mixed emotions as a result of this program.

dedalus

Bill,

Just want to say, great job. Outstanding. Sorry if I've been too quick to rush to judgment against you in the past. The results you've helped achieved are amazing.

Dedalus

40

Mixed thoughts re: Silentlambs group

by Pathofthorns in

a person has to be a bit nieve to think that if the wt suddenly gave into all of the demands of silentlambs that silentlambs would somehow cease to exist and or let up their pressure on the society.. i think there is a broader agenda here, one that includes a measure of revenge against the wt and one that won't stop until they are out of business.

no child is truely protected or safe when they are raised in a cult.

a logical extention of silentlambs would be expanding their agenda to include the blood issue and children.. it is this obvious broader agenda the silentlambs group has that invites criticism from active witnesses.

dedalus

Path,

I don't mind that "Silentlambs" has taken on this one issue at the exclusion of other issues. Adding the blood policy to the agenda would only result in exactly the sort of thing you're worried about: that "Silentlambs" comes off as a person who will grind his axe over any issue to do with the Organization.

If, after the dust has settled with the child molestation, Bill & whomever else switch to another issue, fine ... but I suspect that the people involved with this are pretty focused on this, and always will be. That's just the impression I get from many many posts I've read, plus his website.

There are things about Bill that bother me, as I've said before in other threads, and perhaps along these lines you and I will agree. I've seen him accuse people who question his sources ("so-many-thousands molested & the Org. knows it!") of supporting pedophiles, or insinuate as much, anyway. It's never enough to say, "You have to trust my information is right, even if I can't (won't) say where I got it, and if you don't trust that information, you're sympathetic to the opposition." That's exactly what the Watchtower does.

I also don't like the rhetoric of his approach, what with its grandiose analogies (Bill compares himself to students at Tienanman Square, making himself a martyr, drawing attention away from the victims), or its poetic use of the term "silentlambs." I don't know why I hate the term "silentlambs." It just rankles me -- maybe because I don't trust people who speak in metaphor when the thing they're talking about (child abuse) is clear enough.

But, of course, I'm looking forward to Dateline and, except for these concerns, I think Bill's done a fine enough job.

Dedalus

30

PRESS RELEASE 5-23-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

first candlelight vigil for jehovah's witness child rape victims .

church leaders move to crush support group for abused .

advocates provide proof the problem exists.

dedalus

Cellomould,

I never said "anachronism" means "apples and oranges." I'm not even going to pretend I know what you mean by "if 'anachronism' is the apple, 'apples and oranges' are the oranges." Perhaps our misunderstandings have multiplied to the point of utter incomprehensibility. No matter.

I never attacked someone by an "emotional argument," whatever that means. I made some statements about a particular (and in my opinion inappropriate) analogy made by Bill in that press release -- but I didn't attack Bill. Then Michael3000 posted that I should be ignored, and accused me of being pretentious (in so many words). Tell me, where was the "logical argument" in Michael3000's remarks?

As for my response to Michael3000, I'm not pretending I was logical. He wasn't interested in what I actually wrote, since he didn't respond to what I actual wrote, so my attitude was "fuck him." I was annoyed, yeah, and I think I had a reason to be. If it was indeed excessive, well, sorry -- but I thought we had thicker skins than that.

Do you feel that Bill is attracting to much attention to himself? Why don't you think of a more effective way to tell him?

We may hold contrary opinions, which is fine, but this is a public forum, and I'm just trying to participate. I'm not interested in communicating with Bill; he's doing fine on his own. Admiring most of his work doesn't mean I have to admire all of it, or the way he does it sometimes. And if all my harping on one little analogy seems excessive to some, what can I say? I really care about this stuff, and that's why I get the way I get.

Dedalus

30

PRESS RELEASE 5-23-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

first candlelight vigil for jehovah's witness child rape victims .

church leaders move to crush support group for abused .

advocates provide proof the problem exists.

dedalus

Hmmm,

but from an editorial standpoint, I'm not sure you can say the analogy is "anachronistic" or apples and oranges.

Of course I can. Why can't I?

I don't like the analogy, because I don't think it works. Why? Well, for one, there is no actual threat on Bill's life, no danger that he himself will be run over by any tanks, imprisoned, executed. So he's kind of posturing by comparing himself to those who actually were (the elders didn't even show up to his committee). Second, the Tiananmen protest was distinctly political -- Bill's is of another sort entirely. I wouldn't classify them as the same kind of protest -- each is conducted differently, in radically different contexts, with radically different results. Third, I dislike the way the analogy turns Bill (perhaps the others you mention, but mostly Bill) into a martyr. It puts the spotlight more on him, less on the victims. I've seen this happen a couple of times before, and I've also seen Bill snarl at those who inquire about his sources, and then never apologize. Doesn't make him evil, but it irks me, even though I acknowledge the good he's done.

For what it's worth, I think Bill's efforts are terrific, and clearly the best is to come. Believe it or not, I admire him for it. But sometimes his tone bothers me. Sometimes he seems too attention-grabbing to me. I mention it, draw attention to it, because I care about the issues here. And if, on a public forum, I want to say something about that, I'd prefer it if someone engage with me on that level, instead of telling people to ignore me, and accusing me of vocabulary-flexing.

Histrionic? You're right about that -- Bill's not quite histrionic. Bad word choice on my part, okay? Melodramatic, maybe. Anyway, I consider "fuck you, asshole" to be more dismissive than anything else. I certainly wasn't shrieking when I typed it.

Thanks for your response. Probably we won't agree, but in instances like this, that's certainly okay.

Dedalus

30

PRESS RELEASE 5-23-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

first candlelight vigil for jehovah's witness child rape victims .

church leaders move to crush support group for abused .

advocates provide proof the problem exists.

dedalus

I think we all missed the point on the Tiananmen Square reference, Michael3000. Tell me, how exactly is Bill (or any one of us who care about what's going on here) like one of the student protestors at Tiananmen Square? How does that historical analogy clarify the problem of the Organization concealing child molestation?

Sometimes things are clear as a whistle, and self-aggrandizing analogies only muddle up the context, which is important enough to speak for itself.

As for your quip about my vocabulary -- fuck you, asshole.

Dedalus

30

PRESS RELEASE 5-23-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

first candlelight vigil for jehovah's witness child rape victims .

church leaders move to crush support group for abused .

advocates provide proof the problem exists.

dedalus

“I am sad to see it come to this, but just as the Chinese youth stood for freedom in Tiananmen Square, we stand for children and will not allow this movement to be crushed by headquarters directed excommunication.”

Huh?

Apples and oranges, Bill.

I support the cause, just wish its "leader" didn't sometimes sound so ... histrionic. I could do with fewer bad poems, fewer references to roaring lambs, and fewer anachronistic analogies.

Dedalus

4

The Resurrection of Jesus

by rbaitz in

jw
friends

have you ever asked yourself, "why was the stone rolled away and the tomb that christ was laid in, empty?

there are many thoughts,.

1. the pharasees stole the body.

dedalus

You forgot number four:

4. Barny the Purple Dinosaur broke into the tomb while Bert and Ernie distracted onlookers. They all flew away on Aladdin's magic carpet and now live in Never-Never land with Peter Pan, who masterminded the whole thing.

Dedalus

13

Are there any JW's here?

by rbaitz in

i would like to dialog with any jw's.

i have some questions that i hope you can answer or if you cannot just say so.. my first question:.

jesus is called the son of god (john 3:16).

dedalus

LOL @ You Know!

Dedalus