Mixed thoughts re: Silentlambs group

by Pathofthorns 40 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    A person has to be a bit nieve to think that if the WT suddenly gave into all of the demands of Silentlambs that Silentlambs would somehow cease to exist and or let up their pressure on the Society.

    I think there is a broader agenda here, one that includes a measure of revenge against the WT and one that won't stop until they are out of business. No child is truely protected or safe when they are raised in a cult. A logical extention of Silentlambs would be expanding their agenda to include the blood issue and children.

    It is this obvious broader agenda the Silentlambs group has that invites criticism from active Witnesses. The "anti-WT" combined with "protect the children" has dogged this issue from the beginning. For me, I would like to see children protected and I would like to see the destruction of the WT. I just have mixed feelings when I see these two issues collide in the way they have. I hope the end will have justified the means. I hope we haven't resorted to anything too unethical to achieve the results we wanted.

    We can pretend all we want that all we care about is the children, but we all have a mixed agenda here. When you see threads talking about "Spanking the WT" etc, we all want a measure of payback and justice too - and I think there is nothing wrong with that. If anything, victims deserve some sort of payback. But don't deceive yourself and think this is "all about the children".

    I would have liked to see a group that Witnesses and non-Witnesses could go to for support and help for a range of problems and get qualified professional help. Problems ranging from sexual and physical abuse to drug and alcohol dependancy and even marriage counselling. The Witness community is severly lacking in the way it "helps" people with problems and complaints and in the manner it gives advice.

    The Silentlambs group is a noble effort, but because of it's split agenda, it is not as neutral as they claim and therefore not as effective as it could be in actually helping victims or in protecting children. They have not presented themselves in a way that would generally encourage active Witnesses from seeking them out for assistance. On the website, right away a person is bombarded with anti-WT comments.

    I have mixed feelings about reforming this religion too. A by-product of reform is that it makes the religion a somewhat less harmful place, making it more difficult for one to see the reason to leave. The net result might be more people actually staying in this harmful religion than leaving if it reforms. I can't really accept that the Silentlambs group has any true intention of reform in only this one area. No one likes half-measures. Like I said, there appears to be an obvious broader agenda which probably is more about destruction of the WT and revenge than coming to some agreement with them on an acceptable way of dealing with child abuse.

    For the moment, I am happy to see the Society exposed for what they are and how they operate, but I have been uneasy from the beginning and remain so on this whole matter. It appears to be an organized effort to take a shot at the Society on the backs of victims in the claimed interest of children. When the dust settles, the "anti-Witness" caused will have advanced but will the victims really be better off and will children be any safer? I certainly hope so, but only time will tell.

    Path

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I read this over and I just don't know how to take this essay.

    One point - Tough ain't it. But, if you want the changes you will need the public on your side to bring the pressure on the corporation. That's how it works.

    You know who I work for and you know what it takes for my employer to back down.

    Final point - Bill and others work hard to meet and help the victims. My observations do not support your conclusion that the SL organization is using the "victims" to take a shot at the WTS. The victims and the victims advocates use what small tools they have to get their message out.

    hawk

  • kat7302
    kat7302

    im afraid I tend to agree here. Whilst I would not say im an apostate as I still respect the deciaions people make in their own lives, I have felt that this site is manipulated in some way. I only joined up a couple of days ago so am relatively new to all the terms and phraseology on here but already I have felt undermined. I believed that this was a site for ex-jw's to feel free to air their opinions and ask valid questions regarding the religion and its effects. Whilst I have many issues regarding my upbringing, my main topic on here is sex..not for any perverse reason but simply that Ive felt I have been affected sexually by the way I was raised. I wouldnt expect 'worldy' people to fully understand so felt that asking my questions on here would hopefully gain me some advice and suggestions from people of the same background who already understand where I am coming from. I was very shocked to find when I cam on earlier hat two of the topics I raised have been blocked!!! the only response as to why so far has been something to do with a 'dateline' programme which I have heard nothing about and therefore do not understand. I havent had anything explained to me as regards why my topics were closed and feel almost like there is a 'governing body' at work on this site also. Surely the point was to get away from all that and have freedom of speech? As regards the Silentlambs..I also sense a strong undercurrent of revenge and whilst this revenge would indeed be sweet and well placed, I feel these ones will unfortunatley face more bitter disappointment as not all will be achieved. I can only wish them the best (i have my own silent lamb story so am not speaking from on outsiders point of view here) adn hope that the aims which they outwardly strive for, are met.

  • safe4kids
    safe4kids

    Hey Path How are you?

    You raise some good points in your post. I'm not sure that I got everything you were saying but I think that regardless of additional agendas, the work SilentLambs has done has and will help people who have been victims. Will it result in reform? Will it result in making the WTS a safer place for children? Only time will tell. However, for many of us who have been victims, the exposure and the knowledge that we are not alone has been a great boost. I wish that a place like SilentLambs had been there when I was dealing with all of my stuff, as it would have helped me get through the mental/emotional process of leaving more quickly.

    As for agendas, conversations with a good friend have convinced me that we are all motivated by our own self interest. I don't have a problem necessarily with agendas that go beyond my own; I can take what I need and leave the rest, you know? I don't really think that the destruction of the WTS will occur in my lifetime, although that would be nice to see. I don't have a strong desire to bring them to their knees but, otoh, I can understand why some would greatly desire that outcome. In the realm of humanity, I'm slowly beginning to believe that there are no completely altruistic motives, regardless of the issues. However, lack of altruism doesn't have to negate the good that *is* being done.

    As for the safety of children, you stated that no children are truly safe in a cult. Actually, no children are truly safe anywhere in the world and I can't see a way to bring universal safety about. We each have to do what we can within our own personal spheres of influence. I applaud the work that Bill and others have done and if they have other, less noble reasons for doing so...well, so be it (I'm not saying that's the case, I have no way to know). I'm not going to try to judge that, unless of course there was some negative impact on me or my family. Don't know if I'm making any sense here; these are just some of my thoughts.

    You've made me curious, tho. What specifically would you do differently? What do you think would result in a greater good? I look forward to reading your comments.

    Dana

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    The general public doesn't know much about cults. They think that they would never get sucked in. Relatively speaking, the witnesses are a very small group of fanatics that most people hardly know anything about. Its like the Amish, thats nice, they've got a religion, see ya, wouldn't want to be ya. So to plead to the general public for justice that cannot be found within the organization is a difficult task. Lawyers are truly one of life's gifted manipulators. The law is the law and they know how to get around it. Just like a good accountant finding all the loopholes. They think they have covered all angles but sooner or later, actions & lies catch up.

    Generally, the public is a caring/giving bunch. When they see children being victimized, they act. But they have to hear the story first. Mr. Bowen and the others involved are telling the story. People might not have much sympathy for adults, but children are a totally different thing.
    Problem, the JW story is so large, so involved, people have the same questions as to why does a battered woman stay with her husband? most will not understand. But a hurt child, they understand.

    The story has to be told no matter what the outcome or motive. Another chapter in the book "What's wrong with that crazy printing-real estate company"

  • Simon
    Simon

    Kat - I will email you later about the threads I locked. Please consider how it looks to the person running the forum when a new person joins and all the topics they start are about sex (and not just 'sex') esp. when things like Dateline are about to air and also, suddenly, the new criticism that some people have come up with (since the 'personal attacks' fell flat) is "too many sex threads".

    Path - yes, some people will want to take a pot shot at the WTS. Are you saying they don't deserve it?!?!

    We want reform so that they stop hurting people but it is not *us* that is at fault for wanting this, it is them.

  • dedalus
    dedalus

    Path,

    I don't mind that "Silentlambs" has taken on this one issue at the exclusion of other issues. Adding the blood policy to the agenda would only result in exactly the sort of thing you're worried about: that "Silentlambs" comes off as a person who will grind his axe over any issue to do with the Organization.

    If, after the dust has settled with the child molestation, Bill & whomever else switch to another issue, fine ... but I suspect that the people involved with this are pretty focused on this, and always will be. That's just the impression I get from many many posts I've read, plus his website.

    There are things about Bill that bother me, as I've said before in other threads, and perhaps along these lines you and I will agree. I've seen him accuse people who question his sources ("so-many-thousands molested & the Org. knows it!") of supporting pedophiles, or insinuate as much, anyway. It's never enough to say, "You have to trust my information is right, even if I can't (won't) say where I got it, and if you don't trust that information, you're sympathetic to the opposition." That's exactly what the Watchtower does.

    I also don't like the rhetoric of his approach, what with its grandiose analogies (Bill compares himself to students at Tienanman Square, making himself a martyr, drawing attention away from the victims), or its poetic use of the term "silentlambs." I don't know why I hate the term "silentlambs." It just rankles me -- maybe because I don't trust people who speak in metaphor when the thing they're talking about (child abuse) is clear enough.

    But, of course, I'm looking forward to Dateline and, except for these concerns, I think Bill's done a fine enough job.

    Dedalus

  • Will Power
    Will Power
    As for the safety of children, you stated that no children are truly safe in a cult. Actually, no children are truly safe anywhere in the world and I can't see a way to bring universal safety about.

    Since the world is a bad place anyway, whether these children have their critical & independant thought destroyed, well, there is worse out there. Sorry, but it is this kind of thinking that keeps a child at a disadvantage and robs them of their ability to think logically by and for themselves.

  • morrisamb
    morrisamb

    Some great points are being raised throughout this thread.

    I have found that every single organization or structured group that I have "visited" since I left the Witnesses in the 80s, has not only had an agenda, but members of such groups are expected to talk that party line. I resist this everytime but have come to the realization that sort of defines the nature of the beast.

    No one is going to make me say what I don't want to say anymore. So, what I will say about Silentlambs is this. Imagine one victim who has never discussed their abuse with anyone --they are a Jehovah's Witness right now-- and they go to the SILENT LAMBS site and read THE STORIES, THE EXPERIENCES, of other victims, and they realize they are not alone, not to blame, THAT THEY ARE NORMAL, it's their ABUSER WHO IS NOT. That I would say is a worthwhile result of this particular group. I don't need to agree with their agenda to realize this group's existance is accomplishing something good.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Criticism of the WTS and it's policies doesn't have to be bundled up into one concise package to be valid.

    The Watchtower organization has ruined many lives in so many different ways. For the evidence, one only needs to read the personal experiences posted here almost daily.

    Quite frankly, it is irrelevant to me what, if any, the underlying agenda is for any group wishing to call attention to the lies and inconsistencies of the organization. We will all be labeled "apostates" anyway.

    If the work of Silent Lambs creates a warning signal in the mind of just one person, who might be persuaded to join the Watchtower cult, then they have served a valuable purpose. If what each of us says in this forum, influences just one person not to ruin their lives by becoming a Watchtower slave then we will have done our good deed for the day.

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