dedalus

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Posts by dedalus

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  23

  Is the Organization really free from racism?

  by dedalus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the claims witnesses like to make is that they are color-blind, that their religion transcends matters of race and culture.

  by and large, i think most "apostates" accept this, though it's all too obvious that witnesses are bigots when it comes to all non-members.. but how true is the claim that witnesses escape racial stereotyping?.

  i attended an inner-city congregation with mostly black brothers and sisters.

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  dedalus

  Fran,

  Here we go with south-bashing again. God, that gets old.

  Who's bashing the south?

  We had a wave of southern Circuit Overseers, and yeah, there was a bit of culture shock now and then. So what?

  We had one CO in particular who, in my opinion, demonstrated racist attitudes.

  Nowhere did I generalize that all Southerners were therefore that way.

  In my post I was pretty explicit about my observations perhaps being the result of my hometown's endemic racial problems, and not necessarily the Organizations.

  Nowhere did I claim that black people cannot also be racist.

  No one claimed that racism doesn't occur except in the south. I'm from New England, remember?

  Cornerstone shared precisely one anecdote, a very brief one, about racist attitudes in the South -- which, like it or not, are uniquely troubling and idiosyncratic. Unless you want to pretend that history doesn't matter or effect anyone.

  Here in the south, my congregation was integrated into a formerly black congregation (yep, they were segregated by order of the Tower until the mid seventies).

  Let me get this straight. You admit that the Organization segregated black Witnesses from white Witnesses, then rip into the black Witnesses for resenting it, or reacting badly against it, or whatever. The greater irony is that the Organization (run by white males) ultimately may have fostered racist attitudes against themselves.

  In any case, I don't see what your problem is. You're protesting something that hasn't happened in this thread.

  Dedalus
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  14

  Emotional Bankruptcy after the Tower

  by Esmeralda in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "in many ways, poverty is a state of mind.

  emma bromon, ~founder of liberty house, a halfway house in new orleans for homeless girls with children, or who are pregnant.. this quote inspired me tonight, on an evening where i certainly needed to feel inspired by something.

  it made me question the way that i feel sometimes, that sickening out of control emotion that keeps me awake some nights.. nights like last night.. the feeling that carries over into days like today, .

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  dedalus

  I hear ya, sis. [draws up a chair, pours a glass of wine, throws it back, pours another]

  Most of the time I'm okay with resolutions I've made, similar to the ones you listed above. "Don't let the bastards get you down!" (And if Foxy were here, she'd belt it out in Latin for us.) "The best revenge is living well."

  But sometimes, hell, it's hard. Feelings of despondancy blindside you. This morning I awoke from a dream in which I was reaching for my father, to give him a hardy clap on the back, and he kept dodging me, staring me down with his cold, penetrating stare. I wonder why he won't write to me, eat with me, visit me, etc. I mean, I know, but I still wonder.

  Puts a damper on your morning, for sure.

  But you know there are good days too, days that make it all worth it. Keep posting, Es, 'cause it helps. I don't know what particular stuff you're dealing with, but I'm thinkin' of you.

  Dedalus
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  12

  Art School JWs?

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some years back i went to art school for a year, and life drawing was one of the subjects.

  although the prospect of perving on naked women was at first appealing, it soon became evident that sex-drive is a left-brain function while drawing is strictly right-brain.

  iow, drawing naked people was just plain hard work, and it was the only thing that was hard!

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  dedalus

  would studying art be seen by the Org as a worthy use of one's college years?

  I think the answer is all too obvious: NO! 'Cause studying art ain't gonna support you in the full time preaching work that is only being done by Jehovah's Witnesses.

  "Art" in dub-world is akin to a "hobby" -- you know, like collecting stamps or building model cars out of popsicle sticks. For most Witnesses, there's little difference between a Picasso and a baseball card -- that's my guess, anyway.

  I did know one sister with a real talent for painting, though. Alas, last time I spoke with her she was feeling too guilty about not pioneering while at the same time feeling unfulfilled for not developing her talent. The result? Paralysis and depression.

  You can go to college for plumbing, auto repair, electrical instillion ... anything but the development of your artistic intelligence!

  Dedalus
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  23

  Is the Organization really free from racism?

  by dedalus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the claims witnesses like to make is that they are color-blind, that their religion transcends matters of race and culture.

  by and large, i think most "apostates" accept this, though it's all too obvious that witnesses are bigots when it comes to all non-members.. but how true is the claim that witnesses escape racial stereotyping?.

  i attended an inner-city congregation with mostly black brothers and sisters.

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  dedalus

  One of the claims Witnesses like to make is that they are color-blind, that their religion transcends matters of race and culture. By and large, I think most "apostates" accept this, though it's all too obvious that Witnesses are bigots when it comes to all non-members.

  But how true is the claim that Witnesses escape racial stereotyping?

  I attended an inner-city congregation with mostly black brothers and sisters. For some reason, the Society always sent up Circuit Overseers from the South. The last CO in my old area, a certain Daryll Hendricks (sp?) would waste no time correcting the particular speech inflections of our black elders. Why? Did any of them harp on his annoying drawl? Did they complain about his peevish pet phrases, as in "It ain't no cotton-pickin' good!"?

  One day, Hendricks was out in field service with my mother. He was complaining about the proliferation of the word "Yankee" in our New England territory. "Yankee Peddler, Yankee candle, Yankee magazine ... why do y'all want to use that word?" he explained.

  My mother, always too witty for her own good, replied, "It doesn't bother us -- you see, we won the war."

  But I can think of more telling examples of racism. One white elder refused to let his daughter date a black brother in whom she was interested. Another white elder, at a gathering, publicly compared black people to monkeys. (A number of people, thankfully, were offended, and said something; others laughed it off as a good joke.) An elder's wife once remarked to me that her grandchildren were remarkably bright, even though they were half-black. And another brother, also white, claimed that our congregation was "educationally challenged" because there were so many of "those people" in it.

  Furthermore, I think the same sort of segregation occurred with Witnesses as occurs at college, work, and everywhere else in the world: cliques consisted of members of the same race, almost inevitably.

  Perhaps my experience merely reflects the particular city in which I grew up, which was, in its own way, uniquely affected by issues of race. Or perhaps the alleged color-blindness of the Witnesses is just another complacent, self-congratulatory pat on the back.

  The issue becomes more complicated, however, when you consider that the Watchtower has printed racist articles in the past, claiming that blacks are by nature meek, servile, (but luckily) teachable; one article claimed they decended from Shem or Ham and therefore are an accursed race; another article strongly discouraged interracial marriages. Can we really say that the Organization has extracted itself from its previous views? Or are racist attitudes still being perpetuated, just more quietly and privately than before?

  What do you think?

  Dedalus

  [edited for spelling, grammar, etc.]
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  19

  Aching

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a new thread on the same subjects as ldh's.

  i am having a hard time myself these days.

  my self esteem is zero.

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  dedalus

  Joel -- please take care of yourself! You're much needed around here; I've always enjoyed your posts, and your website is terrific! Heck, I realize that a bunch of anonymous strangers on a DB can't replace your family ... but in some small way, I hope we help! Goodness knows, you've helped us.

  Dedalus
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  17

  Witness to teenagers or not?

  by kimberly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.msmagazine.com .

  this is what is being said about the witnesses on a feminist web site forum.

  i personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.. .

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  dedalus

  Kim,

  It's actually a terrific DB, and not just because there happens to be JW content in that particular thread. The personalities and topics are really engaging ... I can see why you like it. Thanks for posting the link!

  Dedalus
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  17

  Witness to teenagers or not?

  by kimberly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.msmagazine.com .

  this is what is being said about the witnesses on a feminist web site forum.

  i personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.. .

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  dedalus

  I'm bringing this back to the top because I think the discussion is really interesting. Redhorsewoman and I both registered on this site so we could participate in the discussion -- but the interesting posts are the ones from householders sharing anecdotes about bothersome Witnesses.

  http://www.msmagazine.com/cgi-local/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=001097

  Plus, if you think things get heated here once and a while, you should see some of these posters square off!

  Dedalus
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  27

  To Mommy (Wendy) & Prisca

  by LoneWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to wendy & prisca,.

  you badly misjudged both my intentions and what i wrote.

  isnt that exactly what ive been saying all along and the reason that i posted in the first place?

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  dedalus

  The touching story of you and your mother was badly undercut by an aura of cheap sentimentality masquarading as wisdom.

  Glad for the breakthrough with your family, though. Glad you shared it. Now, keep it close to your heart and cherish it always (gotta love the cliche -- gets you through life without ever having to examine anything too deeply).

  Dedalus
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  6

  Hmmmm

  by openminded in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am reviewing my notes for a psych.

  exam and am going over the syptoms of mental illness and schizophrenia in particular.

  i am noticing something that may be well known to most of you educated folks.. symptom 1. delusions of grandour(god has me on his speed dial)(miracle wheat).

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  dedalus

  Nice reply, Joelbear.

  Dedalus
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  19

  THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having had a week away from home, i'm astonished at the way some posters have started to behave.

  this site seems suddenly to be full of vitriol.. now i don't pretend to be every one's favourite pussy cat, and i will always be as outspoken as i choose to be, but i do not attack people personally, i only attack what they believe if i am convinced that their beliefs are anti-social or detrimental.

  i don't attack the person propagating that belief.

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  dedalus

  Nogs,

  Calm down before you pass out! Take some deep breaths -- inhale, exhale: repeat. It's okay, it's okay.

  Nobody's gonna hurt you.

  D.