Posts by dedalus

14

It just arrived!

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

thanks to amazon.com (where would we be without those guys?

) i've just received my copy of the new book "awakening of a jehovah's witness" by dianne wilson (published by prometheus books, 2002).. the dust jacket carries these words: "her engrossing first-hand account will be of great interest to former witnesses, students of cult phenomena, anyone who has ever experienced an abusive relationship, those who want to learn more about what compels people to enter this group, and all who have everhad contact with jehovah's witnesses.".

it looks like a good read, all 327 pages of it, just going by the table of contents.

dedalus

Do you mean "reductive" because you believe they are not a cult?

No, I mean "reductive" because the question "Are JW's a cult?" reduces the Witness experience to matter of semantics. It also makes it virtually impossible to talk about the Witness experience in ways that are fresh, nuanced, idiosyncratic, etc. If Dianne Wilson takes a huge chunk of her personal experience and directs it at the tired old question of whether her former religion is or isn't a cult, she sheds little light on either her experience or her former religion. The semantic game of labelling the Witnesses trivializes and oversimplifies the experience of being a [former] Witness.

I'm not saying that the question of whether the Witnesses are or aren't a cult isn't at all important. It's just that I'd expect a personal narrative to do more. Let me say again that I haven't read Wilson's book, so I don't know whether she's done any of what I'm talking about here.

Dedalus

14

It just arrived!

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

thanks to amazon.com (where would we be without those guys?

) i've just received my copy of the new book "awakening of a jehovah's witness" by dianne wilson (published by prometheus books, 2002).. the dust jacket carries these words: "her engrossing first-hand account will be of great interest to former witnesses, students of cult phenomena, anyone who has ever experienced an abusive relationship, those who want to learn more about what compels people to enter this group, and all who have everhad contact with jehovah's witnesses.".

it looks like a good read, all 327 pages of it, just going by the table of contents.

dedalus

* http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1573929425/ref=cm_mp_wli_/102-1720705-0196109?coliid=I2K5C6UVTEJKFP

I thought the review from Publisher's Weekly was interesting:

"The public needs to be warned," says ex-Jehovah's Witness Diane Wilson about the religion she once embraced. In Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness: Escape from the Watchtower Society, Wilson recounts her quarter-century in the movement, making the usual case that the Society is a cult, that it exercises unhealthy control over the minds and behavior of its members and that it grooms followers to become victims. Certainly, her story is sad, particularly the part about being encouraged to shun her own daughter for several months, but it is hardly a balanced or even very perceptive book. (One of the most interesting elements of the narrative is that Wilson seems to have transferred the near-divine authority that she once vested in her church to her therapist, whose words are sometimes reprinted here in boldface.) Sadly, few objective accounts exist about the Jehovah's Witnesses; little stands in the middle between polemic and apologetic. Readers are left with classic studies such as M. James Penton's Apocalypse Delayed, a rare book that seeks not just to discredit and refute the Watchtower, but to understand it.

I have to say, though I haven't read the book myself (yet), I find the review remarkably perceptive -- not to get too uppity about it, but I'm beginning to find the whole debate about whether Witnesses are or aren't part of a cult to be somewhat reductive. I wonder how much of the book actually revolves around this.

And chapter titles like "Codependency Held Me Hostage" make me cringe. But, like I said, I haven't read the book.

Dedalus

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dedalus

Dickelentz,

I'm pretty much done with this thread, and if, as you seem to suggest, a new direction or fresh start or whatever is needed, let's do it in another thread. I'm open to a new topic, whatever you want, and I'll respond to whatever you write with less vitriol than I have here. But in order to focus on just one thing, I think we need to get out of this "religious vampirism" thing. It's all left a rather bad taste in my mouth.

I'll be looking for you.

Dedalus

37

Prayer, Pascal, and the Anthropic Principle

by JosephAlward in

the anthropic principle .

it's true that life as it exists on earth, and the behavior of the universe as a whole, is finely tuned.

these constants, most physicists believe, were introduced at the time of the big bang, when the universe seems to have been created, or at least, to have begun again another cycle of creation.

dedalus

Stocwach is not seriously engaged with the issues. To take just one of them -- Pascal's Wager -- we have a few people raising valid points about the problematic nature of the assumptions behind it. Stocwach has not answered them in any serious manner at all -- he merely avoided the matter with some blather about the Bible being the oldest manuscript, when he (allegedly) knew that it wasn't, simultaneously accusing REM of a debauched lifestyle. What kind of argumentation is that?

Stocwach is probably a troll and in any event he isn't worth responding to on these issues, since he is obviously not really interested in them.

Dedalus

30

Are you fornicating with your spouse?

by Stealth in

last friday's daily text...... friday, february 22. flee from fornication.. - 1 cor.

6:18. while sexuality is a gift from god, it is not to be expressed without restrain, even within the marriage arrangement....... are they now disfellowshiping people for fornicating within the marriage arrangement?.

talk about going beyond what the scriptues say.

dedalus

This thread would be useful if the quote was in context.

Dedalus

137

What Is Your Favorite Overlooked Movie?

by gilwarrior in

what i am talking about a movie that you thought was great, but is mostly forgotten by most people today.. well, my favorite overlooked movie is "a perfect world.

" in it kevin costner is an escaped felon who escapes from prison with another felon.

they then break into a house and kidnap a boy who is a (gasp!

dedalus

I don't know if it's entirely "overlooked," but Fight Club is a very, very good film. Tyler Durden's vision of utopia is a complex one, more than the anti-corporate rhetoric with which it is varnished. I wrote a paper on it last semester, and found it almost impossible to account for all of the different elements of the film.

Dedalus

137

What Is Your Favorite Overlooked Movie?

by gilwarrior in

what i am talking about a movie that you thought was great, but is mostly forgotten by most people today.. well, my favorite overlooked movie is "a perfect world.

" in it kevin costner is an escaped felon who escapes from prison with another felon.

they then break into a house and kidnap a boy who is a (gasp!

dedalus

LB,

I HATED The Royal Tenenbaums with a passion. Only saving grace was I went to the discount show to see it.

You and I can never be friends now.

Dedalus

137

What Is Your Favorite Overlooked Movie?

by gilwarrior in

what i am talking about a movie that you thought was great, but is mostly forgotten by most people today.. well, my favorite overlooked movie is "a perfect world.

" in it kevin costner is an escaped felon who escapes from prison with another felon.

they then break into a house and kidnap a boy who is a (gasp!

dedalus

Rushmore is one of my all-time favorites. Bottle Rocket, from the same writer/director, is also very very good. Has anyone seen The Royal Tenenbaums? Another great one from Wes Anderson! I don't think it's overlooked, though, not right now, anyway.

Whit Stillman's Metropolitan is very good, witty, literate -- I like it because I was actually kind of like some of the kids in that film, when I was their age.

Dedalus

25

Divorce and Separation-2/8/02 Awake!

by Mister Biggs in

in the past, didn't the society always say that under .

they always cited the scripture that god is hating a .

divorce.. read the imformation above carefully.

dedalus

Many immature people get married in the Org because they are horny. Years later, they usually hate each other.

And, given everything we've been discussing here, do you know what many of them do to get out of their hateful marriages? Commit fornication!

It's happened with several young couples in my area, and it's a deliberate plan: commit fornication, get disfellowshipped, get divorced, get reinstated, get remarried to someone else.

Dedalus

37

Prayer, Pascal, and the Anthropic Principle

by JosephAlward in

the anthropic principle .

it's true that life as it exists on earth, and the behavior of the universe as a whole, is finely tuned.

these constants, most physicists believe, were introduced at the time of the big bang, when the universe seems to have been created, or at least, to have begun again another cycle of creation.

dedalus

LOL @ Ben!

Dedalus