Thanks a lot, ***hole. I just had a seizure. ;)
Complete with poor bored kid who won't be quiet, assy singing and piano music, and now including ONE MORE THING that the Society has stolen in their quest to stamp out all inspiration and spontanaity from their proceedings:
A GODDAMN POWERPOINT PRESENTATION!!!!!! Geez I see enough of those at work every day. I swear to God, if I ever see a PowerPoint at my Hall, I will walk out and I will NEVER COME BACK.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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Kingdom Hall Dedication (video) Complete w/CO Visit & Horrible Singing
by OpenFireGlass inhere's a virtual meeting to show someone what a jw meeting is like without the "love bombing", but all the jehoba this, and jehoba that, prayers, horrible out of tune mono-tone singing?, and a visit from the co giving the dedication talk/prayer... .
the co point's out that a kingdumb hall is only a kingdumb hall if there is a sign out in front stating so... and that if the kingdumb hall was sold it doesn't come with the sign...
(wtf?
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under_believer
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July 15 2006 WT - Uncleanness - disfellowshp?- details
by BluesBrother in.
hope the scans show up ok.. the article is presented as it comes, for your own assessment.
you could not make this stuff up!
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under_believer
Nark, a "don't ask, don't tell" policy is probably the best it's gonna get for the WTS, ever. If only they'd apply that policy to everything else they're straining the camel on, it wouldn't be such a bad religion.
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Do the JWs believe that the great tribulation is happening now?
by whyizit ini just wondered about this, because in rev.
7:9, it speaks of the great crowd and in verse 14 and says that these are the ones that came out of the great tribulation.
verse 15 further states that they are before the throne of god, serving him day and night in his temple.
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under_believer
Do the JWs believe that the great tribulation is happening now?
No. In their eschatology, It happens in the future, after The Wild Beast of Revelation "turns on false religion" and then on Jehovah's Witnesses.
I just wondered about this, because in Rev. 7:9, it speaks of the great crowd and in verse 14 and says that these are the ones that came out of the great tribulation. Verse 15 further states that they are before the throne of God, serving Him day and night in His temple. Since they are "in" His temple, and God's temple is in heaven, and Rev. 19:1 further states that the great crowd is in heaven, I just wonder how the JWs conclude that this great crowd is going to be on earth, when the Bible specifically says they are in heaven?
They "stand before the throne" in a symbolic, or "spiritual" sense. This is something you will see in JW teachings again and again. If they don't like what something says, they spiritualize it. If they make a prediction and it fails, they say it actually really did happen, only it happend "spiritually."
Also, I have never heard anything about the JWs beliefs about the rapture? Do they believe in the rapture?
No. Their interpretation of 1 Thess 4:17 is that it only applies to a special class of 144,000 anointed ones (the 144,000 of Revelation is a literal number, they think) and not to everyone. Also, they simply believe it is referring to what happens to them when they die, not as a bulk event.
I am not a JW, but am curious about some of the teachings and how they come up with some of the beliefs that seem very strange to me. I cannot find Biblical evidence to support such doctrines, such as Jesus and Michael being one and the same. They have man-written books that go into great detail to try to prove such things, but no Scriptural evidence to support it. It would take a great stretch of the imagination for me to conclude such a thing from reading the Bible alone. Jesus is Jesus right up to the last sentence in the Bible. Never is He referred to as MIchael. Where did this teaching originate?
Their "proof" for the Michael = Jesus argument goes like this:
- 1 Thess 4:16 talks about the Lord coming with an archangel's voice
- Daniel 12:1 talks about Michael "standing up" in the "time of the end." "Standing up" must mean taking royal power or acting with a king's authority. And since Jesus is going to wage Har-Magedon, Jesus must be Michael.
- Rev 12 says Michael and his angels will battle the dragon and his angels. Later Rev 19 says Jesus will lead the heavenly hosts against the earthly nations. The angels must have only one commander, so Michael must be Jesus.
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July 15 2006 WT - Uncleanness - disfellowshp?- details
by BluesBrother in.
hope the scans show up ok.. the article is presented as it comes, for your own assessment.
you could not make this stuff up!
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under_believer
Random thoughs:
* The scriptural citations read like a grab-bag of random quotes from all over the Pauline Epistles, all strung together to support a single result. Gal., 2 Cor., Eph... Amazing how they believe that Paul's primary mission was inspired writings on morality, even though the scriptures do not support such a conclusion.
* "as well as oral and anal sex"--so, these are back in the porneia category again? I thought they'd come back out. Maybe I was mistaken. Based on an earlier thread on this forum, many, many otherwise faithful Witnesses at all levels of service are guilty of repeated unrepentant fornication--with their own mates.
* Loose conduct--based on the definition, how many people are truly guilty of loose conduct? How much overlap is there between "fornication" and "loose conduct?" If you are guilty of both, will Jehovah destroy you twice at Armageddon?
* Degrees of uncleanness--"Elders should carefully and prayerfully weigh each situation and find out what occurred and how often, the nature and extent of the misconduct, and the intent and motive of the wrongdoer." I find this to be the worst, most mind-boggling statement in the article. PRAYERFULLY weigh each situation? Imagine that--three grown men sitting around with heads bowed, one of them uttering "Jehovah, please give us your Holy Spirit so we can decide whether Brother Fornicator's sexual manipulation of Sister Moaner's clitoris was done with a motive to give orgasmic pleasure. In Jesus' name, etc., Amen." HOW CAN ANYONE WRITE THIS SHIT AND PUBLISH IT?!
* My summary of this entire article--
Dear brothers:
Please endeavor to be Pharisees.
Agape,
your brothers,
the WTBATSONY. -
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Overheard at the June 4 2006 Watchtower Study
by under_believer inso, even back when i was a true believer i noticed this... .
this watchtower study today, i just got back from, was all about how great the elders are.
what always wigs me out about these things (because they trot this stuff out in a wt study every year or two) is how the elder conducting the study is up there talking about and praising the elders in the third person, saying how great they are, when he is an elder.
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under_believer
My opinion is that there are a lot of really sincere elders. I think at this point, with one or two exceptions, the people in the Organization (including most of the people on the Governing Body) are victims of something that was started a long time ago and which now moves under its own power. Yes: I believe that there are even sincere Governing Body members--there were before, weren't there?
Much like the Matrix, the Organization has taken on a life of its own, a sentience of sorts that is greater than any of the people that belong to it. -
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Forum History Lesson: Any ungratefuls?
by under_believer ini see a lot of posts here from people who, even though they've had trials and difficulties because of learning the truth about the truth, are appreciative and say things like "thank god for jwd!
it really set me free!
i'm curious whether anybody has ever come on here, learned the truth, accepted it and recognized it for the truth, but been unhappy because it meant trial and tribulation, hypocrisy, regret, change.
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under_believer
I see a lot of posts here from people who, even though they've had trials and difficulties because of learning the truth about the truth, are appreciative and say things like "Thank god for JWD! It really set me free!"
I'm curious whether anybody has ever come on here, learned the truth, accepted it and recognized it for the truth, but been unhappy because it meant trial and tribulation, hypocrisy, regret, change.
I'm not talking about JW's who come on here to argue--I'm talking about people who really recognize that the Witnesses are vomit, learned it from the board, but wish they hadn't found out.
Has anybody been ungrateful? -
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Overheard at the June 4 2006 Watchtower Study
by under_believer inso, even back when i was a true believer i noticed this... .
this watchtower study today, i just got back from, was all about how great the elders are.
what always wigs me out about these things (because they trot this stuff out in a wt study every year or two) is how the elder conducting the study is up there talking about and praising the elders in the third person, saying how great they are, when he is an elder.
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under_believer
So, even back when I was a True Believer I noticed this...
This Watchtower study today, I just got back from, was all about how great the elders are. What always wigs me out about these things (because they trot this stuff out in a WT study every year or two) is how the ELDER conducting the study is up there talking about and praising the elders in the third person, saying how great they are, when HE IS AN ELDER. It's this weird disconnect where he's talking about how he deserves double honor, but not mentioning himself by name.
Also there was this one sister (divorced, depressional, menopausal, about 52) who kept raising her hand and making comments about how patient the elders where and how they had to put up with so much from the publishers, and how some publishers are "problem children" and need so much more attention and work, and how much "we" appreciate it. Not sure what her boggle is, I guess she is the type that calls up elders at 10:30PM crying and they need to round up another elder and go out to her house and hear about how lonely she is. I literally have never heard her comment so much before this meeting. She musta got called on 7 times.
The really weirdest thing for me about these elder praise articles is the "double honor" part. I know for a fact that this makes some elders really uncomfortable, because some are elders because they honestly want to serve. My father personally told me once that he doesn't feel like he deserves double honor--he's just doing his job. And you could tell from a couple of elders' comments that they were really trying to downplay that whole thing--they don't like being called "gifts in men" and they don't want "double honor."
Good Elders (and it seems like there are always a couple of really honest, goodhearted, humble ones in every congregation) dislike these parts, a lot. Of course those are probably the kinds that will end up eventually drifting away, and the Company Men who really feel like they deserve "double honor" will shake their heads and wonder why such great brothers resigned and fell away. -
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The unbelievers think we're odd but this we do not mind
by Mysterious indoes anyone else remember that line from the songs?
were you odd?
did you mind?
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under_believer
Guess what else contains blood or blood products? PROPERLY BLED MEAT.
It's impossible to get rid of all the blood. I say--just eat the hotdogs. -
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Celebrated Apostates
by Nathan Natas ini recently found a listing of prominent apostates from the adventures of the wtb&ts during the 20th century.
here's the list: moyle, fogh, goodrich, hemery, and schnell.
i know a little about each of these men, with the exception of fogh, whom i'll admit i have never heard of before.
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under_believer
What is the source of this list? I'm intrigued. Where can I find more info?
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were you forced to join the (misery ) ministry school?
by headmath in.
maybe you have some fond stories of this.. my story is that i was forced to join when i was about 12. i always got an assignment that dealt with beastilaity in exodus or somethin.
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under_believer
Mysterious, the gender inequality problems in the School have always bothered me since I was a little kid. I never experienced the nervousness you do, but a lot of people do. It is all around a wacky practice and not biblical at all (which is why some people get away with just not doing it.)