under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  23

  Book study funnies - blood

  by Zico in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the book study tonight was all about abstaining from blood.

  the usual nonsense which we've all heard before, but i thought i'd share some amusing comments from the completely misinformed and delusional brothers and sisters there tonight.

  i wish jwfacts, td or any of the other board blood experts could have been there tonight to hear this, now that would have made a good study!

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  under_believer

  jwfacts, your quote is correct but your sourcing is (slightly) wrong. That quote is from the Sept 15, 1961 Watchtower, page 564--it's still in Watchtower Library.
  
  Just a minor nitpick, thought you'd like to know.
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  71

  Need advice - marriage in crisis

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been a member of this forum for a while now.

  i need some advice.

  i can't say too much about myself because i'm still an active witness, though not by choice.. my marriage is in trouble and the one thing that causes it is being a member of jehovah's witnesses.. i was born and raised in the truth like so many others here.

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  under_believer

  truthseeker, I am in roughly the same position as you, albeit with more kids. My wife knows that I have lost all belief in the Society and the Witnesses. I do not go out in field service and I do not comment at meetings. We have had many discussions about the faith; some approaching the level of arguments, and some just fairly intense religious debates. I also agree that I don't want my kids to be poisoned with this filth for any longer than necessary. Already I encourage them towards independent and critical thinking--this is also the way their personality leads them, so it makes it easier.
  
  I've struggled for a long time, trying to decide what to do. I still don't have the answer and I don't know if what I'm doing is going to work. My current approach is this:
  
  

  • I attend all the meetings that my wife wants to, to support her with the children. It's tough taking three kids, one of whom is an infant, to the meeting all by yourself. She knows that I think it's all nonsense, though. Interestingly this actually increases her respect and esteem for me--she knows I hate going, but I go for her and the kids.
  • I work really really hard to be the husband she has always wanted. I do a lot of chores around the house, even though I also work full time and she doesn't work at all. She's having a difficult time keeping up (we have a baby with special needs that consumes more of her time than normal.) I spend a lot of time with her--watching TV, playing games, etc. I do everything (and more) expected of me as a father--read to the kids every night, put them to bed, change diapers, get up at night, the whole nine yards. I give her a 45 minute shoulder/back massage every night (and I'm really damned good at it.) I constantly tell her that she looks great, that she's never been more beautiful, that she's a good mom, that I love her. I am hoping that this will convince her that someone can be a really good person without believing in the Watchtower.
  • Every single chance I get, I bring up, in a non-confrontational manner, inconsistencies from the Watchtower. Things I read on this board. These are always in response to something she's said--I never initiate these conversations. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to talk about how the Society used to deny germ theory in the Golden Age and their quack medical theories. A few days ago, I likened denying blood transfusions to the hardcore Catholic practice of not using birth control and having many many children. Last month, we talked about how even though people are already doing so much, the Society is always asking for more more more--and she agreed. This way I can slowly help her to realize that they're not all that--but without having her feel like her faith is being assaulted. I only bring up things I know I can back up with proof, and I try to capitalize on things she cares deeply about--family, children, health.

  This is kind of the anti-Witness analogue to 1Pet 3:1,2 (NWT):

  1 In like manner, YOU wives, be in subjection to YOUR own husbands, in order that, if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of [their] wives, 2 because of having been eyewitnesses of YOUR chaste conduct together with deep respect.

  I don't know if it will work, but I can say that she almost never pesters me about my beliefs anymore, and that we are closer in our marriage than we've ever been. This is the slow way and it requires tons of hard work and a great deal of patience on my part (especially in putting up with all the crap I have to sit through at the goddamn meetings.)

  The above ended up being much longer than I was expecting. I hope that it is of value to you.
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  62

  Hardships and Assemblies

  by Sunspot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just left a post on the "pa convention" thread concerning some of the hardships and difficulties that jws had to (or some here still have to?

  ) endure just to either get to a convention or what they go through after getting to the convention.. having to trot around from designated doors to the restrooms (rather than being ordered to use the door they told you to) no matter where your family was sitting..... or having you and your family have to climb way too many stairs on the last upper tier to find seats.....while plenty of empty seats remained on the ground floor that were never used that whole day?.

  or the designated wts-regulation-sized cooler you had to lug into the stadium because you weren't allowed to leave the site to get a snack or a drink?.

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  under_believer

  For the most part, I agree with Jerohobobonadad--If you're a middle-class, young, childless couple or single person, it is really no hardship and can even be kind of fun. I loved assemblies when I was a teenager and for the few years of my marriage that we didn't have kids. We'd sit there and listen to the program, sing with the group (at the time this never failed to move me: I feel differently now), go out to eat afterwards with friends, and have great hotel sex when we got back at night. It was a blast.
  
  But the thing is, as many others have mentioned, it's much tougher with kids, disabilities, physical or mental problems, or financial hardships. And that describes about 95% of Witnesses, doesn't it? For those folks, it's torture.
  
  We have kids. Asking small children to sit for two hours at a meeting is bad enough (there's a reason that other religions run Sunday schools), but asking them to sit for six to eight hours a day is sadistic and unreasonable. Remember, most people who organize this stuff, from the Governing Body on down to the various departments at Bethel who administer the convention programs, have never had kids. I have gotten very little out of the last seven or eight years of conventions; I expect this to continue for another seven or eight years (assuming I'm unsuccessful in convincing my wife that it's a waste of time.)
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  23

  Book study funnies - blood

  by Zico in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the book study tonight was all about abstaining from blood.

  the usual nonsense which we've all heard before, but i thought i'd share some amusing comments from the completely misinformed and delusional brothers and sisters there tonight.

  i wish jwfacts, td or any of the other board blood experts could have been there tonight to hear this, now that would have made a good study!

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  under_believer

  Amazing. I missed our book study this week, it would have been interesting to see if that stuff got spewed around at mine too.
  
  It's amazing that some people still believe that stuff.
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  50

  Possible clue to the "Big" Announcement!!

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my husband, the black pearl, had a interesting conversation with his mother today.

  she was trying to be all kiss butt nice, for today that is, to tell him about the new tract that is coming out in october.

  apparently they don't have it yet.

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  under_believer

  As everyone else has said, this "big announcement" will be about as noticed as a fart in a hot tub with the bubbles on. Let's do the math again:
  
  7 million active publishers (that is REALLY stretching it but let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt)
  50 tracts each (assuming that they all distribute all 50 tracts, which they won't)
  The "message" of each tract gets to maybe two people, directly or by word-of-mouth (again, this is really generous)
  
  What's their market penetration? 700,000,000. Seven hundred million. That means that, in completely optimum, perfect conditions which do not exist, their message gets to slightly better than one in nine people. Not exactly fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Not exactly an announcement to all the world.
  
  And what's more realistic here, to be honest? More like 4 million actively distrubute these tracts, and they average 20 each, and maybe half of them get thrown out without being read, meaning a penetration of more like 40,000,000. Forty million. One in one hundred sixty five people.
  
  Like I said: a fart in a hot tub.
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  113

  Question: Demons

  by ladybug25 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  growing up, i remember hearing stories from my own parents and others in the congregation about experiences with demons.

  sister x wore a t-shirt that she purchased at a second hand store and the demons attached themselves to the shirt and gave her problems.

  certain movies and/or cds would give a family problems.

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  under_believer

  Hey, um, chiddy, I sure hope that was a mistype and not a slam! 0_o
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  113

  Question: Demons

  by ladybug25 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  growing up, i remember hearing stories from my own parents and others in the congregation about experiences with demons.

  sister x wore a t-shirt that she purchased at a second hand store and the demons attached themselves to the shirt and gave her problems.

  certain movies and/or cds would give a family problems.

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  under_believer

  Under_believer- thanks for that, does that mean we are friends now?

  I should hope so. If there's one thing I appreciate about breaking free from Witness thinking, it's the ability to befriend those I don't agree with. ;) Heck, just being able to disagree with someone on religious topics, and not be afraid of being punished, is breathtaking.
  
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  113

  Question: Demons

  by ladybug25 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  growing up, i remember hearing stories from my own parents and others in the congregation about experiences with demons.

  sister x wore a t-shirt that she purchased at a second hand store and the demons attached themselves to the shirt and gave her problems.

  certain movies and/or cds would give a family problems.

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  under_believer

  dido, you will find a good resource at http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html. That's a start, and they link to other resources about it too.
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  113

  Question: Demons

  by ladybug25 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  growing up, i remember hearing stories from my own parents and others in the congregation about experiences with demons.

  sister x wore a t-shirt that she purchased at a second hand store and the demons attached themselves to the shirt and gave her problems.

  certain movies and/or cds would give a family problems.

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  under_believer

  dido, you've found me out. I'm hopelessly in love. ;)
  
  Seriously, though, my reason for posting on this thread is that I just feel like belief in demons is one of the ways that Witnesses and other fundamentalist Christian sects control their members. It's enslavement. Breaking from from belief in them is freedom.
  
  Even if you truly believe in demons, you have to admit that if they didn't exist, that would be a huge relief for you. Because that would be so great, I earnestly encourage you to at least consider the possibility that there's other explanations for what happened to you.
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  113

  Question: Demons

  by ladybug25 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  growing up, i remember hearing stories from my own parents and others in the congregation about experiences with demons.

  sister x wore a t-shirt that she purchased at a second hand store and the demons attached themselves to the shirt and gave her problems.

  certain movies and/or cds would give a family problems.

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  under_believer

  Dido, I hate to be "that guy," but you realize, don't you, that your description almost exactly describes sleep paralysis?
  
  Answer this question: Did you read up on the link to sleep paralysis that someone posted? It often manifests itself as people being able to feel someone pressing on them or putting hands on them, or pulling their hair.
  
  So if that is the case, why would you believe that your experience was demons, and not sleep paralysis? What happened to make you so sure?