Posts by under

85

What's the difference between humans and animals if there is no God

by JH in

jw
friends

if there is no god, does this make us the most intelligent animal?.

under_believer

> If I am merely an animal, and am just a happenstance that came into being
> because of something called the evolutionary process, then:
> I am not special, I am not created, I don't have a purpose, I am not intricately made,
> I am not unique, I hold NO value or worth, I am not an individual.

I find that conclusion to be astonishing. Why must the proposition that you weren't created mean all that stuff?

24

I'm confused- Does it mean that I stumble someone if I drink Coffee?

by Verona in

jw
friends

i was reading the post from truth seeker on the april 15 wt.

i went a little farther in the article and noticed the q& a indicating that some in the congregation may choose to abstain from cafeine.. this kind of reminds me of the hotdog incident, back in the 60's when we wouldn't be allowed to eat a hotdog because it offended some brothers and sisters with weaker consciences (they believed that hot dog weiners had blood in them).

so we became closet hotdog eaters for awhile.

under_believer

Stumbling has nothing to do with "weak faith," whatever the Society or any other religion would like you to believe. Think about it. When someone says that you've stumbled them because of your behavior they're really saying "I want to control your behavior and actions. You should conform to my ideas of right and wrong." When you go ahead and do whatever it is that they think is bad, they are pissed off because you didn't obey them, and that is what Paul referred to as being "stumbled."

It's about conformity, not faith.

41

Wow a long list of Famous active JWs and xJWs

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i didn't know of some of these and question the status of others.

many i have never heard of.. list of famous jehovah's witnessesa range of participation is represented by these individuals, from full activity to disaffiliation.. george benson - jazz guitarist maurizio bianchi - musician cheryl bradley - executive housekeeper ivana brkic - croatian musician richard cameron- dutch musician valerie campbell - mother of naomi campbelltom edur - former nhlice hockey player.

ida e. eisenhower (mother of president eisenhower) leopold engleitner - buchenwald concentration camp survivor and centenarian.

under_believer

Jerry Lee Merrit, Rockabilly Hall Of Fame member. http://www.rockabillyhall.com/JerryMerritt1.html

41

Wow a long list of Famous active JWs and xJWs

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i didn't know of some of these and question the status of others.

many i have never heard of.. list of famous jehovah's witnessesa range of participation is represented by these individuals, from full activity to disaffiliation.. george benson - jazz guitarist maurizio bianchi - musician cheryl bradley - executive housekeeper ivana brkic - croatian musician richard cameron- dutch musician valerie campbell - mother of naomi campbelltom edur - former nhlice hockey player.

ida e. eisenhower (mother of president eisenhower) leopold engleitner - buchenwald concentration camp survivor and centenarian.

under_believer

Of the people I've heard of, these three I didn't know about.

Naomi Campbell
Lark Voorhies
Gary Gygax

That last one COMPLETELY BLOWS MY MIND and I have a hard time believing it considering the Society's stand on DND and the fact that he's still very active in the roleplaying community, including attendance and presenting at cons and such.

15

UNBELIEVABLE! Actual chat conversation with an active pioneer JW.

by deaconbluez in

jw
friends

i don't think so lol.

lol.

under_believer

What's very telling for me (and I see this all the time with Witnesses) is that she doesn't really care whether the beliefs are true or not, they don't really affect her one way or the other so it's not a big deal.

My wife is exactly like that.

26

Uhhhhh, may have done something stupid...not sure...

by mama1119 in

okay, so my best friend calls this morning.

she has left the borg, but the rest of her family hasn't.

she was invited over to her moms house last night for dinner and her grandparents were suppossed to be there.

under_believer

That story is unbelievable.

16

Do Watchtower Flashbacks Still Haunt You?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

do vietnam watchtower flashbacks still haunt you?occasionally, there are times in which i get up from a sound sleep.

tearful because of my vietnam watchtower flashbacks of being.

one of jehovahs witnesses.. sad to say, these dreams come back to haunt me in a negative way.. do you ever dream of still being stuck in the organization?are there times in which you find yourself back in the kingdom.

under_believer

True story.

Coupla weeks ago I woke up in the middle of the night, and in one of those tricks your brain plays on you when it's first waking up, I was convinced that my wife, myself, our entire bed, were all covered with weird glowing ants moving around very fast.

I don't even believe in demons, but in my confusion and disorientation I found myself praying aloud to Jehovah for protection from demons.

I'm embarrassed to admit this. Please be kind.

40

Did anyone get the old "counterfeit money" illustration?

by themonster123 in

jw
friends

a couple of my old witness girlfriends came over last night (note-i only recently left the org.

like 2 months ago, so people are still trying to get me to come back and "reason" with me)...and they used that stupid "counterfeit money" illustration.

i swear, every time i tell people i don't think it's the truth, they put that old illustration on me!

under_believer

> You don't have to study all the counterfeit money to recognize the real
> thing. Just study the real dollar bill and you won't HAVE to study the others.

This illustration is disingenuous for several reasons, mostly already stated by others in this thread, but I like to restate stuff so I know I have it straight in my own mind.

First of all, it presupposes that the Witnesses are the "real dollar bill." It implies that the practice of checking out other religions and their teachings is studying "counterfeit money." See what they did there? By even responding to this analogy, you accept the proposition that the Witnesses have the truth and what you're doing by studying other religions is verifying that they're fake. In real life only the Federal Government can tell you for 100% sure that a bill is real. In this illustration I suppose the Federal Government (the issuer of the money) would be God. But he's not talkin'.

Which brings me to the second reason this illustration is retarded. Since the Feds (God) aren't telling us which bill is real, we need to figure it out for ourselves. We don't start from the standpoint of knowing which bill is real. Say we have 10 bills, 9 counterfeit and one real. We would need to carefully study all of them to recognize the fakes, and even then we wouldn't be 100% sure. So studying all the money isn't an exercise in studying counterfeits; it's an exercise in studying all the possible bills to determine which one is real.

And if they really want to go with the money illustration, what would happen if you happened to come into possession of a counterfeit bill, and in good faith believed it was real? If you tried to spend it, would the Federal government come and kill you? No, they wouldn't. It's the person that MADE the fake that is in the wrong here, not the person who accidentally accepted and then spent it. So do they really think God will slaughter everyone who accidentally picks the wrong bills? What kind of asshole would he be?

288

Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

by AnnOMaly in

watch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.

"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?

" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.

under_believer

@dozy:

> I doubt this - I think that the formula the WTS has used
> for years is too entrenched to overturn , and very few JWs
> think about the distinction (other than a few anointed ones
> who think they should have more authority).

The reason I still hold to this theory is because with an upswelling of people professing to be anointed, they have a weird power situation. They stress heavily in the QFR that anointed have no special insight, no greater holy spirit, no precedence. They do this because if the ranks swell, it would create divisions and problems in the congregations.

So if the anointed don't have special insight, don't have more holy spirit, and are only differentiated by their final destination, ipso facto they can't be the Faithful and Discreet Slave, as the WTS understands that scripture. The FDS provides "spiritual food," which DOES imply special insight. The anointed as a class don't have special insight.

> the reporting of the figure is very much a fait accompli.
> Often it is the first figure that JWs look for.

But why is it the first figure that JWs look for? We all know very well why, it's the anointed death watch. As the number dwindles the end comes closer, in many JW minds. That's why they continued to publish it. With the gates to heaven back open, the number becomes meaningless, insignificant. Nobody will care and it will cease to be a "death watch" figure.

12

Will Be In San Diego In Late April - Want to Do Lunch?

by Seeker4 in

i'm flying out to see my son and his family april 19-25, and might have some time to meet some of the jwd folks out there for lunch or a drink.

anyone there, or interested?

not sure what my schedule will be, at this point, but thought i'd put out a feeler.

under_believer

Come to Portland sometime. I'd love to meet you in person.

under_believer

Posts by under_believer