Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
Not everyone who professes to look to Christ is a Christian.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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58
Are witnesses Christians?
by KW13 in.
i know that all religions have their flaws, so do you agree that witnesses should call themselves christians or are they 'too un-christian'?.
the baptism, i think proves its different, they are baptized into an organization, that forms part of the questions...agreeing that the society is god's earthly representation.. personally i feel they are not christians.
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under_believer
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"Mole" Elders
by Alligator Wisdom inhave any here had one in their congregation?.
an elder is assigned to a congregation, usually by the co, in order to clean it out.
especially in regards to the elder body who may be going off tangent by wts accordance .
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under_believer
Yeah, seen a lot of those. I used to call them "cleaners". Sometimes you see "cleaner" CO's who shake up a whole circuit and sometimes you just see "cleaner" elders assigned to a specific congregation.
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"I want mercy, not sacrifice"
by under_believer init's not a new thought, but it bears occasional repetition.
repetition, you might say, for emphasis.. why is blood forbidden jw's?
why are there laws and regulations that can cause a person, a child, a lover, a husband, a wife, a mother, a father, to die?.
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under_believer
Neo, thanks for your contribution. Reading that phrase - "The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath" - really does emphasize the point. What was more fundamental to Judaism than the sabbath? And yet Jesus says that the sabbath was for the sake of man, making this point at the same time when he was essentially violating the sabbath in the minds of the religious leaders of his day.
The ban on lifesaving blood transfusions is indefensible even if the Witnesses have their interpretation of Acts 15:28,29 correct. -
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"I want mercy, not sacrifice"
by under_believer init's not a new thought, but it bears occasional repetition.
repetition, you might say, for emphasis.. why is blood forbidden jw's?
why are there laws and regulations that can cause a person, a child, a lover, a husband, a wife, a mother, a father, to die?.
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under_believer
Serendipity, when it is used, it is used to highlight Jesus' moral battle with the Pharisees and to (correctly) call out Pharasaical behavior, primarily consisting of unbending adherence to rules that they either made up or interpreted too harshly. They even like to talk about how people who incurred the Pharisees' wrath risked expulsion from the synagogue, discussing what this meant for a person's life and saying how horrible it was.
Strangely, no sense of irony is ever present when these topics are aired. -
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When I Say----"JEHOVAH'S WITNESS"----What Do You Think Of???
by minimus inwhat do you associate that name with??
what's the first thing that pops in your head?
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under_believer
The suits, always with the suits and the book bags.
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"I want mercy, not sacrifice"
by under_believer init's not a new thought, but it bears occasional repetition.
repetition, you might say, for emphasis.. why is blood forbidden jw's?
why are there laws and regulations that can cause a person, a child, a lover, a husband, a wife, a mother, a father, to die?.
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under_believer
It's not a new thought, but it bears occasional repetition. Repetition, you might say, for emphasis.
Why is blood forbidden JW's? Why are there laws and regulations that can cause a person, a child, a lover, a husband, a wife, a mother, a father, to die?
Why was there a sabbath?
The answers, according to the Witnesses, are the same: they are symbols. They are symbols of something sacred.
What did Jesus, the perfect man, God's son according to the Witnesses, and a human who lived the law perfectly think about this subject? I draw your attention to Matthew 12:
1 At that season Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath. His disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what it is not lawful to do on the sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have YOU not read what David did when he and the men with him got hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those with him, but for the priests only? 5 Or, have YOU not read in the Law that on the sabbaths the priests in the temple treat the sabbath as not sacred and continue guiltless? 6 But I tell YOU that something greater than the temple is here. 7 However, if YOU had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice,’ YOU would not have condemned the guiltless ones. 8 For Lord of the sabbath is what the Son of man is.”
9 After departing from that place he went into their synagogue; 10 and, look! a man with a withered hand! So they asked him, “Is it lawful to cure on the sabbath?” that they might get an accusation against him. 11 He said to them: “Who will be the man among YOU that has one sheep and, if this falls into a pit on the sabbath, will not get hold of it and lift it out? 12 All considered, of how much more worth is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the sabbath.” 13 Then he said to the man: “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored sound like the other hand. 14 But the Pharisees went out and took counsel against him that they might destroy him.
What do you think? Jesus is recorded as telling his disciples, and in fact the authority figures of the day, that the spirit of the Law was mercy, not sacrifice. That the observation of the Sabbath was secondary to human needs and concerns. That when push comes to shove, he and his Father care more about the people following the law than the law itself.
If you are a Witness reading this, let me ask you a question. Maybe you believe that Acts contains a "biblical command to abstain from blood," and that this absention applies to you in the 21st century, and that this injunction extends to blood transfusions and not just eating blood. This is already an astonishing view to take of that scripture, since there are many other ways that have as much or more merit to interpret those words. But even if you believe that, when reading the above, do you really think that Jesus would approve of letting somebody die because of failure to administer a blood transfusion?
Can you imagine Jesus essentially violating the Sabbath in the 1st century, just so his disciples could glean... healing people to make their lives more comfortable, on the Sabbath, when he could easily have waited til the next day... Can you imagine him doing all that, because He and his Father want mercy, not sacrifice... and then approving of the sacrifice of dead little children, who died because they believed that they were to abstain from blood? Whose full, long, promise-filled lives were cut short?
Is dying for want of a blood transfusion...
Mercy?
or Sacrifice? -
1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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under_believer
Infantile. Looks exactly like those posts from that guy who kept saying the Society HQ would be destroyed back in June. A long, rambling, incoherent mess that wouldn't even MEAN anything or have any practical value even if it WERE true. I bet the boys down in Brooklyn wish people like 3rdWitness would stay off their side.
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September 2006 Kingdom Ministry! MAJOR issue!
by under_believer inthe september, 2006 km is one of the most special and significant publications the society has released in a long, long time.
well i'll tell you.. exhibit a: on page 1, the official announcement about the bethel layoffs.
hint: it's all blamed on "improved technology.".
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under_believer
The September, 2006 KM is one of the most special and significant publications the Society has released in a long, long time. Why? WHY, YOU ASK?
Well I'll tell you.
Exhibit A: On page 1, the OFFICIAL announcement about the Bethel layoffs. Hint: It's all blamed on "Improved Technology."
Exhibit B: On page 1, the announcement of the October 16-November 12 "Special Campaign," the distribution of the tract Kingdom News #37, "The End of False Religion Is Near!" (we can only hope.)
Exhibit C: Starting on page 3, and going through page 6, the list of corrections to the Revelation Climax book for the upcoming Congregation Book Study. That's right, folks, there are FOUR FULL PAGES of corrections to update the Revelation book to the current "light." These are not minor corrections. These are replacements of entire SENTENCES, PARAGRAPHS, and FOOTNOTES. No doubt the changes between the original and new material will be highly instructive, both for current and ex-JWs.
The rest of the KM is the standard usual pablum. I will try to post scans or transcriptions of the material I just described as time allows, but don't expect it immediately. My ability to post here has recently been severely curtailed (no, not by any moderator action, by my own life) and I have to pick and choose opportunities to post. -
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Any Dubs in your Hall that were puportedly "Demonized"?
by Sailor Ripley inwe had a whole family that moved into our congo when i was about 10. they had kids from 6 to 16-years-old.
there was always talk of their beds spinning and shoes floating, et cetera.
they lived in a literal shack so i didn't want to go there to spend the night, but i always wanted to go and "check it out" to see some fireworks.
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under_believer
When people take the thread off topic, it is my favorite thing ever in the entire world.
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adios LDH aka Lisa...
by just2sheep in.
...the one and only.. on another thread lisa said her goodbyes and i just wanted her to know that despite the way it may appear she will be missed.
come back soon.. j2s
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under_believer
I can't help but wonder if your post was an attempt to get the thread locked or deleted so you will be vindicated in your decision.
I don't play forum games.
Simon, I appear to have misstated your position: I apologize. Of course rules are necessary, as is enforcement of them. Nor should anyone, management or contributor, be treated rudely in any way.
I just felt that your reaction to Lisa, who recently fomented one of the most significant events in the XJW world in recent memory, amounted to a "my way or the highway" approach. It even included ridicule and personal attacks, which really turns me off. Of course, this is your board, and I don't begrudge or even question your right to say whatever you want. No apology or admission of guilt or wrongdoing is warranted or necessary--the facts are there and people can make up their own minds. I guess I was just a little appalled to see it, is all.