under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  11

  Very high-quality scan of the 9/07 km Question Box

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for your viewing pleasure.. very large (broadband only):http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/24263/2001598126453183143_rs.jpg.

  smaller (dialup ok):http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/21912/2001532577224620787_rs.jpg.

  enjoy.

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  under_believer

  You're welcome!
  Gopher, good points. Along those same lines, I posted an analysis here, with a rather unfortunate threat subject line that did me no favors at all: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/139208/1.ashx
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  181

  OKM 09/07 (english)- Just another brick in the wall...

  by metaspy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok guys and gals, i (being the assistant to the magazine counter) have acquired the newest okm.. i have uploaded it to imagevenue.com: here.

  hopefully that works!.

  by the way drew, your translation was very close.

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  under_believer

  High-quality scan:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/139242/1.ashx
• 
  11

  Very high-quality scan of the 9/07 km Question Box

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for your viewing pleasure.. very large (broadband only):http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/24263/2001598126453183143_rs.jpg.

  smaller (dialup ok):http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/21912/2001532577224620787_rs.jpg.

  enjoy.

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  under_believer

  For your viewing pleasure.
  Very large (broadband only):http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/24263/2001598126453183143_rs.jpg
  Smaller (dialup ok):http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/21912/2001532577224620787_rs.jpg
  Enjoy.
• 
  54

  We have the truth

  by MutualRespectPlease in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i will be respectful.

  but in reading past posts it seems we are allowed to speak frankly?

  i think jehovah's witnesses have the truth.

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  under_believer

  MRP, does it matter to you that you are saying exactly the things the Society has taught you, and every other Witness, to say? Does it matter to you that I and many others here could have written exactly the same statement just a few years ago?
  
  Many of us still have family members, mentors, and friends in the organization. I myself, though inactive, still attend most of the meetings. We know that many individual Witnesses are good people. I believe you when you say that you care, because you are deliberately flouting the Society's direction to reach out to us, and that shows that you are willing to think for yourself and take personal risks to help others. How do you feel about the fact that in order to do what you feel is right you have to disobey the direction of the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Do you feel like unreservedly using the term "truth" is appropriate when you don't, in fact, believe that everything they are teaching you is true?
  
  You aren't supposed to be here and you would be counseled if anyone found out that you are. If you didn't agree with the counsel you could lose your privileges, up to and including being disfellowshipped. If you have had and continue to have "every privilege a brother can have in the organization" then you know this to be true. If you were called on to counsel a young brother who admitted to visiting ex-JW discussion boards on the Internet, what would you do? You know the answer as do any here who have served in that capacity.
  
  You say that the Witnesses have the truth. Fair enough. But was it also the truth when they taught that the generation of 1914 would by no means pass away before Armageddon? Was it the truth when Rutherford gave the talk, "Millions Now Living Will Never Die?" Was it the truth when it forbade organ transplants, saying that these were cannibalism? Was it the truth when it required that thousands of young Witnesses of draft age go to jail rather than accept alternative service? Was it the truth when it allowed the celebration of Christmas? Was it the truth when it believed that the end of the system of things was in 1876?
  
  All of these are teachings that used to be required beliefs for all Witnesses. Anyone expressing disagreement with any of them would be disfellowshipped, just as they would be today if they expressed disagreement with any of the Witness teachings. And yet... those teachings, requirements, and doctrines were wrong and were subsequently changed. What current teachings are going to be subject to change?
  
  Even if you believe that the broad strokes of Witness belief are true, such as hellfire, Trinity, and Paradise, can you really call something "the Truth" that can and does change?
  
  Congratulations on posting here, and you have my warm welcome.
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  15

  ever changing WTS

  by logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i guess the following article and many more like it no longer apply since the sept km.

  (aug 15, 98 wat pg 20).

  19 jehovahs organization does not discourage sincere, timely questions, as some opposers mistakenly claim.

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• 

  under_believer

  I have to disagree, it's completely consistent.

  Asking reasonable questions and searching God’s Word and Christian publications to find Scriptural answers can increase our accurate knowledge and can thus strengthen our confidence in Jehovah.

  "Christian Publications" is coded language for "the Society's publications."
• 
  16

  all Watchtower material contains coded messages.

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  under_believer has joined the mason/illuminati/shapeshifting lizardman conspiracy theory crowd!

  everything the watchtower writes for witness consumption has a subtext.

  there is a difference between what they actually write, which anyone in the public can read, and what they actually mean.

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  under_believer

  under_believer has joined the Mason/Illuminati/shapeshifting lizardman conspiracy theory crowd! Not quite.
  
  Everything the Watchtower writes for Witness consumption has a subtext. There is a difference between what they actually write, which anyone in the public can read, and what they actually mean. Only relatively experienced Witnesses can parse this hidden subtext.

  Why is this important for the Society? Because it allows them a wide latitude to lay down laws and commands for their followers without actually appearing to do so. The followers receive the messages and act accordingly, but the general public doesn't see it. This means that members of the public and newly converted ones are less likely to notice that they are entering a high-control group until they've been thoroughly conditioned and don't care anymore. It even allows experienced JW's to rationalize the high-control environment when they have a rare flash of rationality, something I've seen again and again when I gently prod any more intelligent Witness into thinking for themselves.

  Here is the already-infamous Question Box from the 9/07 KM, as an example of this phenomenon. Thanks to fjtoth for typing this out. In the quoted material below, the Society's masking phrases have been stricken and the hidden subtext that every experienced JW instinctively will understand has been appended in italics and bolded.

  Q UESTION B OX

  • Does "the faithful and discreet slave" the Watchtower Society endorse allow independently thinking groups of Witnesses who to meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?–Matt. 24:45, 47.

  No, it we do es not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization dangerous individuals with too much time on their hands have formed borderline apostate groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued a n self-important independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze question the accuracy of the New World Translation Bible. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created apostate Web sites and apostate chat rooms, which are always very dangerous, for the purpose of exchanging spreading and debating their views. They have also held apostate conferences and produced non-inspired publications to present their findings and to supplement replace what is provided at our Christian the Society's meetings and through our inspired literature.

  Throughout the earth, Jehovah's people all of you are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at the Society's congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of Jehovah's organization the Society. We are under the guidance of his holy spirit. and On the basis of but by no means limited to his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed through the Society so that all of God's people you may be " fitly united completely identical in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain " stabilized conformant in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are You had better be grateful for Jehovah's our inspired spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does we do not endorse allow any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its our oversight.–Matt. 24:45-47.

  It is commendable for individuals to want to use their thinking ability in support of the good news to arrange car groups. However, no personal selfish, dangerous pursuit should will detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through his congregation on earth today us. In the first century, the apostle Paul warned about getting involved in exhausting, time-consuming subjects, such as "genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith." (1 Tim. 1:3-7) All Christians should strive to "shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile."–Titus 3:9. [Editor's Note: The average Witness will skim over these citations, assuming that they apply unequivocally to the situation being discussed, happy that they are there since it proves that this discussion is Biblically based.]

  For those of you who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend require that they you explore Insight on the Scriptures, "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial," and our other inspired publications, such as those that discuss reveal the truth of the prophecies found in the Bible books of Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation. These provide abundant inspired material for Bible study and meditation, whereby we you can be "filled with the accurate knowledge of [God's] will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing him as [we] you go on bearing fruit in every good work placing literature in the field ministry and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God."–Col. 1:9, 10.

  Anybody here who used to be a hardcore JW knows that good Witnesses parse the above article in that way or a way very similar to it.

  Later when articles like this are criticized by the media or by ex-Witnesses, the Society or for that matter faithful Witnesses need only point to the literal text of the article to handily disprove the point, even though they know in their hearts exactly what the meaning of the passage is, why it was written, and how Witnesses interpret it in practice.
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  34

  JW Stopping Door to Door Preaching?

  by SuzieQ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone heard any announcement to this effect?

  could it be true?

  no more jw knocking at our doors?

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  under_believer

  I am an inactive JW but I still go to almost all of the meetings. This is not true. If anything like this was true every other thread on this board would be about it.
• 
  73

  Will members here, joining that new XJW site be shunned here cause they....

  by NotaNess in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are talking down about jwd?

  does it even matter, or does it become a verbal war between 2 sites?.

  what happens with things like this?

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  under_believer

  Dragon "lady" 76,
  
  Some of us like sex, have sex, and can even find ways to discuss it that don't make us sound like thirteen year old boys. Some of us can also resist the urge to post our bust sizes on the internets.
• 
  73

  Will members here, joining that new XJW site be shunned here cause they....

  by NotaNess in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are talking down about jwd?

  does it even matter, or does it become a verbal war between 2 sites?.

  what happens with things like this?

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• 

  under_believer

  That board is dumb.
  
  35 members, 50% of which will never post. A whole section called "SEX-Discuss anything Sexual," containing such enlightening topics as "How Bodacious are your TaTa's?" An entire section devoted to bashing JWD. Not a thread, mind you, a whole section of the site. The "forum owner" posts threads where his entire post consists of things like "MENE MENE TEKEL PARSIN". He can't be bothered to use punctuation or capitalization or for that matter string more than four or five words together in a whole post, let alone a sentence.
  
  Not to mention that they aren't self-hosted and don't even have their own domain name.
  
  Yeah, I think that's gonna work out great. That board is really establishing a rationale for it's existence. It's really gonna fill a niche.
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  20

  Post your Simpsonized self potrait here.

  by 5go in

  1. social
  2. humour

  it really kind of does look like me.

  though i look yellower in real life because of a vodka related insisdent.

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  under_believer