Good point thruthseeker! Thank you.
freetosee
for several years there has been available a pay attention to yourselves and to the flock book in pdf and html format.
this book has proven to be extremely valuable in exposing the morally questionable activities of the watchtower society.
now we have a new version that is even more valuable because it contains the hand-written notes of a presiding overseer, some notes as recent as late 2005. these notes are frequently dictated to elders by a circuit overseer or district overseer in order to avoid liability (the wts can deny every giving such instructions).
Good point thruthseeker! Thank you.
freetosee
ok, as some of you know, i was suppose to have a "study" with my mom and an elders wife yesterday.
well, the elders wife couldn't make it because "something came up".
i guess it was more important than my salvation.. anyway, i still went to my parents house.
Well done FF,
it was good the elders wife couldn’t make it, if possible keep her out of it.
I think it is best to next challenge WT bible interpretations, not the bible itself. You got your mom to start thinking and don’t want the ‘inside-wall’ to jump up. When I first left and my family was in, I found questions demanding scriptural evidence to work best. I also think it is important to tell them how you feel about certain WT teachings. Don’t say you believe and know different or they might consider you apostate influenced.
There was so much I wanted to tell my family I could hardly control it, but realized being patient and giving a lot of time worked better.
You know your family best and can access how far to go with them. Make these ‘studies’ as enjoyable and friendly as possible (my heart often started beating very hard during these conversations) and end them with a pleasant thought of common ground which they can agree to.
I hope all the best for your endeavours.
freetosee
as you know i have been posting for a while now and i want to say i am really enjoying it.
i love everyone here!
i have noticed many great minds out there and i am in need of some advice, i am looking for some ideas on how to handle a situation.. i left the wt with my family about two years ago now.
Hi lovlylil,
Sounds like, your friend is in a terrible if not dangerous situation. This ‘inside-wall’ baffles me many times. Some people I know (I Know there are many more) suffer for depression before entering ‘the truth’ and then they enjoy the love-bombing until a little time after their baptism as highlight of their lives. Finally they again can’t cope with this new-life feeling guilt and failure, because of the constant WT pressure and loss of the lovely attention encountered at first. The elders calculate he/she is more trouble than gain, give their ‘pray and do more service advice’. After this don’t work and the week person gives reason to qualify for disfellowshipping, he/she get kicked out and are good to serve as warning example for the ‘faithful ones’. So their depressed situation is worse triple times, or more as before becoming JW, and is now a great value to the congregation.
This really aggravates me, because it’s so cruel. And I feel an obligation to help, but get truly exhausted constantly running against this ‘inside-wall’. (I guess the WTS would be happy reading this.) So I feel responsible because I understand, yet realize I can’t take down the wall. I end up getting angry and upset at both the WTS and its victim. So what to do? I accept my limitation and that I am not responsible for the person’s life. One can only help who help themselves. So I speak very openly to them, encourage therapy, as it has worked for me, and am straight forward and strict about it. If the person pulls me down to much, I tell them. There is only so much one can do. It tears me apart sometimes. But I think you are more responsible for your family, you have done (-are doing) what you can to help. You have done the right things, encouraged therapy, books, have conversed a lot, spend hours listening and surly prayed over this. Again, you did the right thing! Your family comes first. Don’t feel bad, its not your fault.
So we are left to trust in time, because time heals and time tells. That's all I can say.
Take care, freetosee
are there any freemasons who post here?
if you don't want to add to the thread then feel free to pm me.. one of my close friends is a mason and has encouraged me to consider joining but everything i have known about the masons in the past has been negative - all bigoted jw speak.
from what i have researched they are a fraternity who hold near christian moral values and cannot understand the vitriol the witnesses hold for them.. i have also seen pictures of rutherford's grave in a masonic cemetary so cannot understand why they would aim such negativity against a group which their founder belonged to.. can anyone shed any light on this?
Hey thanks Kenneson, I appreciate it and will look it up. freetosee
for several years there has been available a pay attention to yourselves and to the flock book in pdf and html format.
this book has proven to be extremely valuable in exposing the morally questionable activities of the watchtower society.
now we have a new version that is even more valuable because it contains the hand-written notes of a presiding overseer, some notes as recent as late 2005. these notes are frequently dictated to elders by a circuit overseer or district overseer in order to avoid liability (the wts can deny every giving such instructions).
VM44,
If every publisher had a copy it would take away some of the elders authority and would make them appear even lesser to be guided by Holy Spirit. The handling of committees, disfellowshiping (potential apostates) would not give them the same advantage over the sheep. Elders are selected men, who are thought of as, 100%-200% WT advocates.
Also if publishers, public and interested ones know of all the many forms and reports to be fill out by elders, this ‘spiritual paradise’ would appear less Jesus-like and more to what it is –big busyness-mind-control-spying on brother-program!
are there any freemasons who post here?
if you don't want to add to the thread then feel free to pm me.. one of my close friends is a mason and has encouraged me to consider joining but everything i have known about the masons in the past has been negative - all bigoted jw speak.
from what i have researched they are a fraternity who hold near christian moral values and cannot understand the vitriol the witnesses hold for them.. i have also seen pictures of rutherford's grave in a masonic cemetary so cannot understand why they would aim such negativity against a group which their founder belonged to.. can anyone shed any light on this?
That very interesting, of course it’s impossible for me to provide that kind of evidence. But this still does not explain Russell’s strong use of mason symbolism, doctrine, terminology, etc.…?
for several years there has been available a pay attention to yourselves and to the flock book in pdf and html format.
this book has proven to be extremely valuable in exposing the morally questionable activities of the watchtower society.
now we have a new version that is even more valuable because it contains the hand-written notes of a presiding overseer, some notes as recent as late 2005. these notes are frequently dictated to elders by a circuit overseer or district overseer in order to avoid liability (the wts can deny every giving such instructions).
I had lots of trouble downloading myself and had up update my Adobe Reader here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
I hope it works for you so you don’t miss out on the ‘new light’
freetosee
for several years there has been available a pay attention to yourselves and to the flock book in pdf and html format.
this book has proven to be extremely valuable in exposing the morally questionable activities of the watchtower society.
now we have a new version that is even more valuable because it contains the hand-written notes of a presiding overseer, some notes as recent as late 2005. these notes are frequently dictated to elders by a circuit overseer or district overseer in order to avoid liability (the wts can deny every giving such instructions).
Well done RichieRich! I have got some of my father’s manuals including the old ones. I still have the general keys for the hall to access the gate, the four halls (four story building), conference room and literature desk. The files of about eight congregations are in the locked cabinets. Only Sec. & PO have those keys. They forgot to take the keys off me when I left, it was kind of chaotic.
The last time I checked the keys was about 2-3 years ago, they still fitted. I don’t want to get in trouble though. What should I do?
for several years there has been available a pay attention to yourselves and to the flock book in pdf and html format.
this book has proven to be extremely valuable in exposing the morally questionable activities of the watchtower society.
now we have a new version that is even more valuable because it contains the hand-written notes of a presiding overseer, some notes as recent as late 2005. these notes are frequently dictated to elders by a circuit overseer or district overseer in order to avoid liability (the wts can deny every giving such instructions).
This is excellent (evidence –actually its horrendously evil)! Thank you.
I remember when my father became an elder (I was about 16) and attended his first elder-training-school He was very exited and motivated. Even though, he shouldn’t have he told me what instructions were received he did. My father is a simple man with not much bible knowledge, and he felt very privileged to be an attendant. Proud to tell me that only elder can attend these meeting, no outsider or regular JW. This is very carefully and strictly controlled. To begin with he told me, the participants are instructed not to make video or audio recordings. At some sections not even personal handwritten notes should be taken, the elder books are only to be received by serving elders and may not be hand- or photocopied. At loss of eldership the book must be returned to WTS. The reason for all of this is the danger posed by apostasy.
His overall summary was the “Big-O”. Obedience! “I will obey the governing body no matter what they say. If they tell me to jump, I jump, without asking questions. If they tell me my green bible is black –then it is black!”
I also thank the person to make these handwritten notes available. Does anyone know the story?
freetosee
are there any freemasons who post here?
if you don't want to add to the thread then feel free to pm me.. one of my close friends is a mason and has encouraged me to consider joining but everything i have known about the masons in the past has been negative - all bigoted jw speak.
from what i have researched they are a fraternity who hold near christian moral values and cannot understand the vitriol the witnesses hold for them.. i have also seen pictures of rutherford's grave in a masonic cemetary so cannot understand why they would aim such negativity against a group which their founder belonged to.. can anyone shed any light on this?
I mentioned that because my reasoning is Russell copied much from other sources. So it would not be surprising for him to copy from Masons. Christianity was there centuries before, but Russell’s WT got started when masonry experienced a boom in America after masons travel over from England and Scotland. Please how do you explain Russell’s strong use of mason symbolism, doctrine, terminology, etc.…? What convinces you that there is no link between Freemasons and Russell? It is surly more then just coincident to me. I did not know Miller was a Mason, thank you that gives me something new to look into.