keo:
***The only thing I was trying to say is that I feel that most elders are sincere and are not evil people who are out to get you. That doesn't mean that I don't believe some of their beliefs are harmful. Like I have said consistently, I prefer to attack the issues not the person.***
Then we're almost on the same page after all, Keo! I agree that most JWs and some elders are sincere and believe they're doing the right thing. So do many other religious fanatics who cause harm to others by their actions. That they cannot see that they're doing great harm doesn't excuse them. It's very tempting to label them as evil, but you're right, they're mostly deluded. Remember that many on this board, including myself, have suffered to some degree from the WTS policies. Part of the healing process for many is to vent their anger at the JWs, some of it justified; some not. It's difficult to focus on issues when you have been injured by people you thought you knew and trusted.
Now, the gb, that's another matter for another time.
parakeet
JoinedPosts by parakeet
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149
Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?
by listen innot a society apologist!!
just wanting to know what you all think.
does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.
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parakeet
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149
Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?
by listen innot a society apologist!!
just wanting to know what you all think.
does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.
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parakeet
keo, in an earlier post you said this:
***The elders might say "She brought it to our attention that she was sexually abused by a fellow elder but he denied it and since there is no way for us to know whether or not this is true other than to take her word over his, which we believe is against Bible principles, then we could not take any action. If she has humility she will accept this and be patient and wait on Jehovah to straighten things out knowing that if it is true Jehovah will not leave the abuser unpunished."***
***See what I'm saying. It is the same incident looked at from 2 very different viewpoints. Because both parties have good reasons to feel the way they do I would not cast judgement at either one.***
And now you're saying this:
***The elders feel that if such an accusation is true, that Jehovah will bring it to light one way or the other. That is why it is harmful to have such strong belief. This is one of the very things that convinced me that God is not directing matters.***
First you say that you would not cast judgment on the elders for "waiting on Jehovah" because it's the "same incident looked at from 2 very different viewpoints." Then you say their beliefs are "harmful."
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
BTW, I agree with you that God is not directing matters. Nor do I believe the Bible is God's word. -
32
We are a Return Visit for the Mormans
by Bonnie_Clyde inthought i sent this an hour ago, but apparently it didn't go.
for about a year morman elders called on us off and on.
finally clyde called it off.. but recently a new set of elders started coming.
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parakeet
I may get flamed again for recommending this book, but I'll risk it.
"Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer recounts Mormon history from its beginnings with Joseph Smith to the present-day splinter fundamentalist groups, one of which has been in the news lately. Although Qcmbr ridicules the author ("Krackpot Kraky"), Krakauer is a respected author who has appeared on CNN and other networks recently as an expert on Mormon fundamentalist groups, Warren Jeffs' notorious group in particular.
It's a fascinating book and I recommend it to anyone who wants to know more about Mormon history and beliefs -- both the standard LDS Church and its many splinter sects. -
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We are a Return Visit for the Mormans
by Bonnie_Clyde inthought i sent this an hour ago, but apparently it didn't go.
for about a year morman elders called on us off and on.
finally clyde called it off.. but recently a new set of elders started coming.
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parakeet
Qcmbr:
***To openly mock is no virtue.***
Yet you had no trouble writing this when I recommended to a poster a book about Mormom history by a respected author:
***I am Mormon Parakeet and you just talked out of your butt - for a start I don't have a gun (which is a shame because how else would I possibly get my extra wives or kill people when God commanded me - oops I'm spoiling Krackpot Krackys plot.) If you want to find out about anything I'd suggest avoiding airport lounge books as your primary source material.***
Yes, Mormon virtue is really something to admire. -
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Sometimes our reputation is the only thing we have
by Lady Lee ina few years ago i went to a apostafest in montreal.
one of the couples there was someone i knew.
her sister was someone my had a study with and brought into the "truth".
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parakeet
When I was in my early 20s, a sister in the cong took a liking to me and invited me over for drinks and a chat. I felt really honored she wanted to be friends because she was one of the "annointed," and I thought her opinion on almost any subject would be worth hearing.
When I got there, she fixed us some sloe gin fizzes and over the next two hours trashed absolutely everyone in the cong. She knew the dirt on everyone and wasn't afraid to spread it around. To say I was shocked and appalled was an understatement. I don't know why she thought I would enjoy hearing these things. I left as soon as I could and still be polite. I was still a goody-goody in those days.
Mean-spirited gossip was rife in our cong. I'm not sure anyone there had a reputation so sterling that it could not be shredded by this sister and her cronies.
I've found the real world to be much kinder, on the whole. -
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JW's to use Bullhorns on People that don't Answer the Doors
by purplesofa intv
tv news
weekly world news
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parakeet
Good one! I wish they would start using bullhorns -- I can just see all the arrests for disturbing the peace. And the lawsuits when they scare some elderly person into a premature heart attack.
If I remember my JW history correctly, JWs used "sound" cars in their early days, preaching through bullhorns as they drove through neighborhoods. And they weren't averse to putting their foot in the door to make sure their victims heard their sermons in their entirety. -
149
Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?
by listen innot a society apologist!!
just wanting to know what you all think.
does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.
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parakeet
keo:
***If you had a job which involves children and you were falsely accused of molestation should you immediately be fired and have your reputation destroyed by others "warning" every one that you are a child molester?***
That's the problem, isn't it? Only the alleged victim and the alleged molester know for sure. I don't believe the accused should be fired all the evidence is in, but the safety of the child MUST COME FIRST. The accused must be removed from contact with children FIRST. I would favor suspension from a job involving children, and then, if later warranted, job termination. As far as the accused's reputation, an investigation or arrest for other crimes will also cause tongues to wag. That's human nature. An alleged burgler/drug dealer/car thief/murderer/child molester all must deal with the bad publicity. That's an unavoidable side effect of any matter involving the authorities, but it should not be a reason for delaying a child's protection.
***I understand the seriousness of the crime but I also understand the seriousness of accusing someone falsely so you better know both sides of the story before jumping to conclusions and being rash.***
How long would you wait if a child is the accuser? If a child tells you that an adult has been "touching" (or worse) him/her, would you say, "OK, dear. Now run along home until I can talk to [the accused] to see if he/she really did that"? NO! You call the police, child protective services, and whoever else is trained to deal with this. And you do this whether or not you believe the child. It's too big a gamble of the child's safety to wait until you hear both sides of the story. When it comes to children, you act first; ask later. Children can't protect themselves; they need you and me and everyone else to protect them. -
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parakeet
Excellent! Rutherford's favorite brand!
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149
Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?
by listen innot a society apologist!!
just wanting to know what you all think.
does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.
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parakeet
keo:
***I don't know the other side of the story and I can't find that out, therefore I remain neutral.***
***I just hope people who feel they have been victimized can find some inner peace and not have to live a life suffering because of what others have done to them over which they had no control.***
keo, the problem with remaining neutral until you have both sides of the story is that potential abuse continues until a determination of guilt or innocence can be made. In the case of children, they must be removed from the abuser's control AS SOON AS an accusation is made. The potential damage to a child victim is so great and the child's ability to alter his/her circumstances is so small that IMMEDIATE action must be taken, and only THEN both sides of the story can be heard.
You say you just hope victims can find some inner peace. Just hoping is NOT good enough. A "neutral" wait-and-see attitude lets child molesters get away with their crimes far longer than they should. You don't seem to appreciate the seriousness of this kind of crime. -
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# 5 of resolution at DC
by moomanchu inwe utterly refuse to become involved with futile interfaith movements .
as well as social programs and schemes ( nonfutile ones are ok?
designed to perpetuate a system that god has condemned as a failure.
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parakeet
greendawn:
***Why don't they have there own social programs to help their own people since it is also their Christian duty?***
Their reasoning is that if the ship is sinking, you throw life preservers (WTS lit), not food, clothing, or social services. It's also a very convenient and pious-sounding excuse for bringing money into the WTS without having to spend any on charity.