Posts by Quandry

34

JW official website promoting Jesus?

by agapa37 in

i have heard from many people when i would go out in the ministry that "we" witness do not believe in jesus.

when my mother first heard about me becoming interested in the witness that is what she said.

ive seen some make that same statement here.

Quandry

I was in the organization for more than thirty years. I have lived through many changes in "truth" dispensed from the organization.

I would have to say that when I found out that the WT society came out with the new teaching that Jesus is the mediator of only the 144,000 and not all of mankind, I was very disturbed.

I have always believed from my reading of the Bible that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Now the GB says this is not so. That we must go through the faithful and discreet slave. More and more emphasis on the slave, less and less on Jesus.

I felt robbed of a real relationship with Jesus. I never read that anyone was a helper to us with the father except Jesus. HE is our mediator. We must pray and approach the Father only through Jesus.

How do you feel about that? Are you willing to have anyone other than Jesus as your mediator?

10

Interesting Day at work (JW refuted...er sorta).....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i figured you all would enjoy listening to my expirience from work today.

a quick background, since my second day at my new job i knew one woman was a witness.

she had the peace tract pinned up to the wall of her cubicle.

Quandry

Well, Tuesday, I think you did deal with her. She probably won't ever come over to you any more, especially after your last reply to her in front of your colleagues.

I guess I would have thought of a few things differently, though.

When she looked confused, I would have taken the opportunity to enlighten her about the UN scandal and other things that they hide from the rank and file. Perhaps she could have been encouraged to find out more. This would have been especially effective since at the same time, you would have been informing many of the coworkers in your office about the goings on in the WT Society.

In addition, I remember the humiliating way the elders dealt with my family. How they were abusive, and unkind. How they lorded it over and sought to impress with their "superior intellect" and knowledge. How puffed up with pride they were. How pleased they were with themselves when they knew they had embarrased and berated us.

Were you an elder? If not, they certainly overlooked a worthy candidate.

55

My Whole Life Seems Like A Fabrication

by Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit in

i'm brand new here but have been reading for months.

my sincere thanks to those who have come before me, shown me that i'm not alone, that i'm not nuts and not a loser.

i was raised a hoho, pioneered my best years away, i married a nice brother, my dad was an elder, one or of both my parents have been pioneers for 30 years+, we hosted bethel speakers and gb members in our home, my parents have had numerous circuit ass.

Quandry

Spit

Welcome. I hope once your family gets over the initial shock of your decision they may become more reasonable. I hope you still express your love for them. Realize that if this had happened to another family member some years ago, you might have reacted the same way. Fear is a strong motivating force. They must fear for your life. They are angered that you would "leave Jehovah." They are conditioned to respond this way.... I know I was for years. My husband and I were in over 30 years and would gladly have hosted GB members, thinking our house would be blessed by their holiness.

You did not give the reason for your leaving. Did you finally get curious and go to the websites, or something else?

44

The Judicial Committee Has Been Formed

by LennyinBluemont in

jw
friends

well, the hard, rusty gears of theocratic justice has begun to turn, and the teeth have caught me.

for those of you who read my earlier threads, in february of 2005, a "sister" i had known for almost 30 years contacted me and wanted to know what i had learned in the years since i had faded.

after granting me full assurance of confidentiality, in writing, i disclosed to her the un scandal.

Quandry

Hello again.

Well, you knew it was inevitable that they come for you. At least the waiting is over. There will be closure to an extent.

I will have to say that from my husband's and my visits with elders, it is a frustrating and demeaning experience. It can feel like you are in the twilight zone. No matter what you say, they don't seem to hear it. If you ask a question, they may not respond with anything remotely like an answer. What you hear will not be what they heard, etc.

You may not emerge from the committee with a feeling of accomplishment. You may just be depressed and frustrated. Didn't you post that you were an elder? You must know how it will go in "the room." The outcome has already been predetermined.

I guess the only thing we can be sure of now is that we are not alone and our numbers are growing.

You and your wife take care.

43

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO STOP SHUNNING?

by Mary in

jw
friends

i feel really angry and upset.

a good friend of mine is going through hell because they are being shunned by their children and grandchildren.

their sin?

Quandry

I think it has been shown through many court cases that a religion has a right to set its own dogma. If a person knowingly joins the group, they are agreeing to follow the precepts of the religion. This has been upheld as a freedom of religion issue. This being said, I don't see that new laws could be made to effect change.

What I do, however, see happening, is that the WT is becomming rather like the Puritans of old. They came to this country to have freedom of religion, because they felt that the Church of England was not "pure" any longer in its teaching. They were obviously very pious and strict. Later on, because they were such an isolated group, they began to turn their attention to destroying each other. This was very evident at the Salem witch trials.

Fear was the motivating force behind the finding of people guilty of witchcraft. If one tried to defend a person, they too could be viewed with suspicion, and have the same fate.

The same with shunning. Many shun because they will also be punished if they do not go along with it. Only now, the cases of apostacy are growing at an alarming rate. People realize that they can be df'd for merely asking a question about a past WT, or something they have heard, like the UN scandal.

Eventually, I see this as perhaps the downfall of the Society. One poster here mentioned that no longer is df'ing a last resort. It is now seen as a following of the old law code whereby a person must be punished, usually with glee by those who love to lord it over others.

Even people who they feel are repentant must be punished, thereby heaping the proper humiliation on them.

The fact that this is such a big issue is highlighted by the recent magazine articles demanding that a strict shunning policy is the only policy that God will accept.

I think that the guilt factor will send some over the edge. They simply will not be able to reconcile this with a loving creator.

We'll see what happens.

19

My Observation...How Come?

by wozadummy in

jw
friends

i've nearly finished reading the 2 ray franz books and i've been on this forum for a few months and i've wondered about this:.

on both the books and the forum much is said about the watchtower lying ,misleading ,being a false prophet ,having no conscience toward the after effects of decisions they have made that have effected peoples lives ,even sometimes tragically.. well ,ok ,but my observation is this :very rarely ,if at all, does anyone say directly that the watchtower is lead and influenced by satan.does this mean that :.

ones have lost faith in god /religion because of the watchtower org and now don't really believe in satan now.

Quandry

I have wondered if Satan is really that interested in what humans do. Why does he care what a religion teaches? I do believe in God (yes, Jehovah), Jesus, and Satan. But do I think that he directs organizations of religion?

I think now that perhaps CT Russell was interested in following God, as were many around his time period. They all, however, wanted to make their own beliefs paramount and all attributed their understandings to "light from God."

It is clear that now, finding out that Russell based his beliefs on the measurement of a pyramid, and the rediculous writings from the next president, about vaccinations, etc. they could not have been directly guided by God.

I can no longer believe with the unwavering blind faith that I really once did. I bought into the whole notion that one does not question the GB because it equated to being disobedient to Moses.

It really boils down to the self-perception by these men that they are directed from God and are to be viewed as infallable. Like the Pope. Like the pronouncements of Moses.

Perhaps Satan is laughing at all people today. Why does he need to intervene? The WT Society does a good job daily of casting people away, pehaps because they chose not to die by taking a transfusion, or because they were willing to admit that they have a hard time believing dogma that can change year to year.

33

Were dinosaurs part of a pre-Adamic "paradise"?

by M.J. in

the wts seems to affirm a lot that adam's blunder really screwed up the earth, and that the earth was not meant to be this place full of killing, disease, death, pain, etc.. but according to the wts version of the story, did god create the earth with these types of features before adam even came on the scene?

the wts does not deny the existance of dinosaurs, who in their words were created prior to mankind during the 5th or 6th symbolic day-ages.

yet its clear from fossilized remains that dinosaurs killed each other, had a high mortality rate, often died young, suffered from disease such as cancerous tumors: .

Quandry

Yes, that is the question. I was once over at a sister's house and was talking with her little girl, around eleven or twelve, same age as my daughter. For some reason I can't remember, I made mention of saber-toothed tigers. It could have been in connection with the La Brea tar pits in Los Angeles.

Anyway, I mentioned the skulls of saber-toothed tigers they found with the teeth imbeded in its victim's head. Also, I was talking about the fantastic size of T Rex teeth. The mother looked horrified and then immediately said to her daughter, "Of course, none of these animals ate meat because this was before the flood." I did not say anything but was so shocked.

What did the saber-toothed tiger do-mistake the mammoth for a giant vegetable?

19

Did you ever hear this? J Dubs go out on a boat because end of the world?

by jrjr4189 in

my friend whos faded and i were talking and he said an uncle of his whos a witness told him a story about a bunch of witnesses getting on a boat a long time ago because they believed armegeddon was coming, and when it didn't come they came back ashore.

does anybody here know anything about this????

?

Quandry

James,

I know now how really entrenched in JW thoughtspeak I was in 1975, but these things are like another bolt of shock for me! People really got guns to defend their stuff? I always thought that Jehovah would protect the ones he wanted to live and that it showed a lack of faith to stockpile anything at all. Did the elders know that these people were doing this? The Society wrote about survivalists and they were always associated with worldly people who were faithless.

I can't get used to hearing more, more and yet more disturbing things!! Where was I all these years! AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!

12

Is the D/F law the most identifying mark that the WTS is a cult?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

this doctrine/law is really troubling me.

i hated it when i was in and after examining it in my mind and speaking with current jw`s i am sure that it is an identifying mark of a cult.

i never really liked to call it a cult, even after i left, but the behaviour of jw`s in this area just bewilders me.

Quandry

SSPO

I think young people being shunned is the most vicious thing. Here a young person, human, vulnerable, has made a bad choice. When a person is young they do not always make mature decisions. They can't look ahead, etc. Now, they have made a mistake. At a time when they need support and help the most, they are literally thrown away. Useless. Worthless. Unloved. Trash. How is this helping?

Especially I feel bad for some like the young girl you mentioned. Perhaps she was just scared to death. Maybe she was shy and could not face the intimate, prying questions that some elders are known for. Perhaps she already was condemning herself.

What if at this time a young person was told how valuable they were, how much their creator loved them, how Jesus died for them, and how they could overcome whatever they needed to with the help of those that loved them. If they did not want to change, I agree that some measure of censure would have to be meted out, but never total shunning by loved ones. AT SIXTEEN???

18

Witnesses Now for Jesus Convention (October 20-October 22, 2006)

by reneeisorym in

jw
friends

.

so.. who is going?.

i am :)

Quandry

I have never heard of this group. What's it about? What do they beleive and do? How many, etc?