Shelby,
how exactly would you know if someone else can hear God? How do you know that God isn't speaking with someone else right this moment? And if God were speaking to another and they maintained it to be so with the same fervor as you but the message was different, whom should I assume is within better earshot of the almighty? You see, so many people claim that God is using them to draw people closer to him! I'd find it very confusing if I tried to believe all of their advice as they all seem to be saying something different! Could it be that God speaks to others as well as to you? Maybe something gets lost in the translation? Seriously, lots of people claim to get their direction from God and lots of different versions of what he's saying! Would it trouble you terribly if I told you that I just had a conversation with God and he told me that you mean well, but I ought not "go there". At least, not with you as my guide.
Perhaps you will answer my question I've posed twice now and will continue to post until you respond:
Is there another forum on which you post and perhap under another name. I am not speaking of H20 or this forum. Is there another forum you post on too? If so, won't you please share the discussion board and user name? I have a funny feeling that you might have frequented another website as well?
With respect and best regards...and peace, of course,
Detective
detective
JoinedPosts by detective
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36
Oz, perhaps?
by AGuest infreedom allows all opinions and facts to be uncovered.
letting people air everything helps us understand what the issues truly are.
sure some are more unprofessional than others but a person willing to understand what is going on will not worry about the "ad hominem" attack or swearing.
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detective
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26
Well, I have NEVER....
by AGuest inin all my almost 42 years... received so much attention... good and bad.
never, i promise you.
and truly... all ya'll... i am neither 'worthy'... nor 'deserving' of it... good... or bad.. have you all noticed just how many times the name "shelby" has been used in the past, say 24 hours?
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detective
Hi Shelby,
I want to be sure that you don't forget to respond to my question. I've copied it below. Since you've decided to clear up your various online personalities please clarify where else you've been posting and under what name. I have a funny feeling. Maybe you've got another persona posting on another board out there? Thanks.original post below.
"Shelby,
Perhaps there is yet another discussion board on which you post? Perhaps under a different name? You sound very familiar! You have been open, would you mind offering where else we might be likely to find your postings and under what name?" -
51
I think I did it!
by freeman ini believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.
i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.
) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.
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detective
Thewiz says:
"I wasn't attempting to theorize about all the wrongs those kids MIGHT have done. How can I provide some kind of reference point to start from if I don't use some kind of example?"Note the example you chose, wiz. The kids were disfellowshipped so the only feasible example would have to be negative, right? Because people are only disfellowshipped for the bad things they do, right? People are never wrongfully disfellowshipped? You immediately assumed something negative about those kids and then had the nerve to say "it isn't my business to know what they did"? Apparently it isn't your business to find out if the disfellowshipping in any way reflected justice. It's funny that you're polite enough to respect their privacy but immediately tell your kids not to hang out with them anymore. You have NO IDEA if the disfellowshipping is justified or not! (I won't even go into my whole feeling on that shunning policy).
And then you have the nerve to complain about how your friend turned her back on you when she became reinstated? You expected more from that woman than you yourself are ready to give! Hey, she was just following the rules. This is what you're raising your kids to do. Follow the rules. Society says you're bad, you're bad. I don't need to know if you're really bad and I'm certainly not going to speak to you to find out. The group says you're a pariah and that's good enough for me. Come talk to me when you're good again.
Buddy, you are raising your children to be the same way that woman was to you! I feel for you, I really do. You can't put the pieces together in your head. What that woman did to you, your children will do to someone else.
Obedience. That's what it's about.organ transplants are cannibalism taught '67-'80
Wanna tell me nobody gets wrongfully disfellowshipped? -
26
Well, I have NEVER....
by AGuest inin all my almost 42 years... received so much attention... good and bad.
never, i promise you.
and truly... all ya'll... i am neither 'worthy'... nor 'deserving' of it... good... or bad.. have you all noticed just how many times the name "shelby" has been used in the past, say 24 hours?
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detective
Shelby,
Perhaps there is yet another discussion board on which you post? Perhaps under a different name? You sound very familiar! You have been open, would you mind offering where else we might be likely to find your postings and under what name? -
51
I think I did it!
by freeman ini believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.
i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.
) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.
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detective
Thewiz comments:
"Ask yourself, do you want your kids associating with them in the first place? I don't care to know what they did. But, I wouldn't want my kids hanging around kids that smoke, drink, do drugs, have babies, fornicate, break the law, etc."
You don't care to know, huh? But you certainly care to theorize about all the wrongs those kids MIGHT have done. Could it be drugs or smoking? Fornicating? Whatever they did it must be very bad!
Sadly, disagreeing with society policy is also grounds for disfellowshipping. So, while they COULD be fornicating, cursing, baby-making drug users those kids could also be insightful, inquistive, righteous youngsters who stand up for what they believe.I guess you wouldn't want your kids to hang around with those types either?
But you don't care to know, do you? You'd rather just let your imagination run wild and assume the worst. That's brilliant.
Really.
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7th Day Adventists / Child Sexual Abuse
by Amazing inthe seventh day adventists are cousins of the watch tower religion.
i went to their web site at http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/main_stat41.html to see what they say about various topics.
the adventists, like jehovah's witnesses, believe in a new earth, a paradise, etc.
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detective
Hi Amazing,
I would never hold you to defending the procedures of the Adventists. I appreciate your opinion and feel glad that you share it with me. I want you to know that I'm not trying to argue with you. You see the policy one way and I see it another way. A difference of how we view it in no way reflects on what I think is an interesting conversation with an interesting person!
I will say that the way it reads to me, the JWs might as well adopt the policies. It has so many loopholes in it that it really could just be a face for the public with another much more dark reality inside the Morman-world. It just reminds me of the ways JWs sugar coat their doctrines and mislead people by omitting essential information and by downright lying at times. The Mormon policy speaks to what we, as rational people, would assume would happen. However it doesn't explicitly state essential information (like, we're gonna call the cops) so we as readers are left to fill in the gaps. It speaks to what we'd naturally assume would happen, but not necessarily to what would happen.
I see this as just the type of policy writing that would be perfect for the WTBTS. It leaves out just enough apecifics so that we're led by what we think would naturally follow, not what they actually explicitly say will happen. It reminds me of the WTBTS telling the Euro. council that there won't be any penalties inacted by the society on European witnesses having blood transfusions. But it leaves out the fact that people who do have them are considered automatically disassociating themselves and therefore receive the usual abusive shunning/spiritual death penalty. That'd probably old news by now, but I think you get my point.
I see this Adventist policy the same way. Now, I don't have any idea if they do or do not go to the police in cases of suspected abuse. I'm not alleging anything. I'm just saying that this policy has lots of squirm room. Are the Adventists slimeballs who'll take that squirm room? I have no idea.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the IDEA of the policy, I just can't help myself to ignore those nagging little alarms that go off in my head when I read it, that's all. Again, it could be nothing.
Thanks for your thoughts Amazing. I'm glad to talk to you. -
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7th Day Adventists / Child Sexual Abuse
by Amazing inthe seventh day adventists are cousins of the watch tower religion.
i went to their web site at http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/main_stat41.html to see what they say about various topics.
the adventists, like jehovah's witnesses, believe in a new earth, a paradise, etc.
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detective
Hi Amazing,
Maybe I'm just a bit skeptical but something still doesn't sit quite right with that statement, in my opinion.I would naturally be inclined to see the statement about sexual assault agencies as somehow inclusive of local law enforcement authorities but you'll note that law enforcement an dthe word police are specifically missing from their statement. I'm definitely suspicious. I would normally assume that notifying a sexual assault agency, particularly in the case of a minor, would mean the police would be notified as a result. However, in no way shape or form did they state that they would notify a sexual assault agency. Instead, they said:
"Establish referral relationships with professional counselors and local sexual assault agencies"
Hmmm. Establish referrals. Not NOTIFY agencies. NOT notify the police. Give a referral. Now, my doctor could refer me to a specialist but they can't make me go. It's OPTIONAL. I'm wondering about these referrals. I mean, they've set up all of these measures to protect and handle it within the church, so would a person be encouraged to seek outside assistance? Maybe we've got another peer pressure situation going on here? Especially when they are busy with "the training of more family professionals to facilitate the healing and recovery process of abuse victims and perpetrators." Now, does that sound like they intend to take this up with secular professionals? How much counselling would the pedophile in jail be getting from these folks? That is, if the pedophile actually went to jail. They said they plan to hold the abuser accountable. Won't the law handle that first and then they can demote them or excommunicate them afterwards?
"Endeavoring to treat with fairness persons accused of sexually abusing children". Won't a jury of their peers treat the accused fairly? Or maybe it won't get to the courts?I find this very suspicious, indeed. There is no mention whatsoever of notifying the authorities. I find this a very strange omission. Wouldn't notifying the authorities be tops on the list of things to do? Instead, there is the possibilty of a referral. Hmmm. But would you need it? After all, there are plenty of measures within the church to counsel the individuals involved.
I just can't shake the feeling that we've got another situation of putting on a good face to the outside world. -
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7th Day Adventists / Child Sexual Abuse
by Amazing inthe seventh day adventists are cousins of the watch tower religion.
i went to their web site at http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/main_stat41.html to see what they say about various topics.
the adventists, like jehovah's witnesses, believe in a new earth, a paradise, etc.
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detective
Where specifically does it say anything about notifying law enforcement agencies? It says they've taken measures but nowhere in that statement can I find a reference to notifying LAW enforcement. Is it there and I somehow missed it? If not, why would something so essential be omitted?
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Prophecy Blunders
by Brutus in" (watchtower p. 56, 1894) .
" (watchtower, p. 150, may 15, 1922) .
" (watchtower, jan. 1, 1924, p5) .
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detective
For Fred,
WT June 15, 64
"As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first century congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it.""The Nations shall know…", 1971:
There is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us. Jehovah has raised up a genuine "prophet" within our generation. Regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them."Awake! 6/8/1986, p.9
"God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God...Jehovah's Witnesses."WT, April 1, 92
"This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of en and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Chrich, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Witnesses .Since Jehovah’s servants of today obey him as ruler, God’s holy spirit also reveals to them what season it is from his viewpoint.
Watchtower 86 4/15/1986 Page 18, Par 11Whom could the real "chariot" of Jehovah's organization roll up to and confront that He might bestow upon this qualified one the commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah? Ah, there was a group whose members had suffered religious persecution during World War I. Who were they? The Modern-Day "Ezekiel" They were a small minority group of men and women who had dedicated themselves to Jehovah.....
"The Nations shall know that I am Jehovah" -How? 1971 Pages 58-62, -
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Helping a Family Cope with JW Mind Control.
by Winston indear freinds,.
i have been asked by a concerned husband to speak to both his family and his wife family about jws.. his wife has been studying with the jws for some months and he is very concerned.
he read alot on the internet and knows they use mind control, and make false claims to be god's channel, but he cannot convince her of this.
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detective
Hi,
you can get Steve Hassan's website at www.freedomofmind.orgHis latest book is Releasing the Bonds: Empowering people to think for themselves. (Or something very close to that title). I also read his first book but the title escapes me at the moment. Releasing the Bonds addresses the Witnesses as a cult whereas the first book does not classify them as such. If I remember correctly, I think he credits Randy Watters for giving him the info on the dubs that allowed him to assess them and label them a destructive cult.