Posts by PrimateDave

36

What JW 'belief' offends you the most?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

?

PrimateDave

belief: that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of the "loving" god Jehovah. This I could ignore if not for...

practice: shunning

Dave

13

300 million year old rock

by startingover in

300 million year old rock.

a 6,000 year old rock is the answer because god said so.

that answer is the scientific method.

"The lack of a deity is not an opening for chaos. It is a call for responsibility."

Exactly! Excellent article! Unfortunately, the author is probably just preaching to the choir, to borrow a metaphor. Yet the hope is that the children of Fundamentalist parents will have the thirst for knowledge to break away from their thought control in time.

Dave

6

Was Mel the first Jew Basher?

by underaglassmoon in

ok so the story go's .

until jesus, jews were gods people.

under the rule of the romans, these none pagans needed to go to the temple to serve the only god.

PrimateDave

"The mosaic convenient angle is probably what I would want explained to me if possible. Who made the declaration that the mosaic law was terminated?" - UGM

Well, there is this "prophecy" in the book of Daniel which hints that the "covenant" would end after the death of the Messiah. It has been said that this prophesy refers to Jesus. Apply the rule of "a day for a year" and you wind up with years divided up into periods of "weeks". When I was a Witness, I understood that the final "week" of years, the seventieth, began with the appearance of Jesus at the time of his baptism. He preached in Judea and Galilee for 3 1/2 years and was then put to death at "the half of the week." Since his death provided the ultimate sacrifice, "sacrifice and gift offering" was no longer necessary according to the Law of the "Covenant".

(Daniel 9:24-27)
24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si´ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·si´ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.

27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.. . ."

Then, of course, the New Testament writings work out the ideas that the Jews had first pick at a special position in the new arrangement. Later, non-Jews were accepted since the Jewish nation as a whole rejected the Messiah. So goes the theology, which is not just a teaching of the Watchtower Society.

Due to grave internal inconsistencies in the entire Bible, it is impossible to trust the prophecy found in the book ascribed to Daniel. Now, if someone like Leolaia would like to go into a more detailed explanation of the origins of the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27, that would be great. If you want to understand the unreliable nature of the Bible, I can recommend reading:

Is It God's Word? by Joseph Wheless (old but interesting, especially from chapter 2 onward; go to the last chapter for a decent index of the book)- http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/

Biblical Nonsense by Dr. Jason Long - http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/

Enjoy your search for knowledge.

Dave

6

The Fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 - What Does It Mean For You?

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

lol!

i can't wait for that wt magazine to come out.

yeah, i know, another thread on matt 24:14.. but it's not about the prophecy, it's about how it's going to affect us if this is going to be a worldwide blast of new light.

PrimateDave

No non-Witness I have spoken to in the half year I have been out has the vaguest idea what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, other than the usual prohibitions against accepting blood transfusions and celebrating holidays. So, the so-called good news of the Kingdom that JW's are supposed to be famous for HAS NOT been preached in all the earth.

Among the Jdubs themselves, I can see the cognitive dissonance growing by leaps and bounds. There has to be a breaking point.

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, it would almost be funny to have a talk about Armageddon being so near one can taste it, followed by a talk on how to will your property to the Watchtower Corporation. I would almost be willing to bet that the baby boomers comprise the majority of Witnesses in the United States at this time. Get them hooked on the idea that the big A will be here before they have to actually retire, and then steal their children's inheritances.

Dave

5

Voluntary or Mandatory?

by acadian in

if it is mandatory, no signature or contract is required.

mandatory laws don't require a contract.

mandatory laws don't require your signature.

PrimateDave

I have read a pdf format book entitled Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception that was quite enlightening.

Like you said, your signature is proof of your consent, and if it is obtained under duress, then it invalidates the contract. What is most frightening, though, is how the system is set up to either force your consent or get you to imply consent in some fashion.

Any more, however, I simply try to limit the contact I have to have with my Government "servants" to the greatest extent possible. While I would consider myself a superior sovereign human being, I find it is not worth my time to buck the system to prove my point, yet. There may come a day when I have no choice.

By any chance have you watched Aaron Russo's documentary "America: Freedom to Fascism"? Sadly, my take on the situation is that it is already too late. We've entered a positive feedback loop, so to speak. The fiction has become the reality, and there is no going back.

Dave

11

Regarding Genesis 3:15, Tell me what you think

by unbaptized in

genesis 3:15 states " i shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed.

" " he will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.".

i did some meditating on this scripture and came to the realization that this prophecy could have somehow been misinterpreted.

PrimateDave

Narkissos and Leolaia. Thanks. You two are gems of knowledge.

Dave

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

PrimateDave

Quotes from Gary's post. Just having some fun with you Gary! ;)

"Service is a purpose for the group's existence," - Being legally liable for the actions of a million "publishers" can alter priorities.

"a way to measure loyalty and commitment," - And also a BIG turn-off to many potential converts.

"a way to create an artificially high demand for printed items, a way to generate cash flow by way of donations," - One can barely GIVE Watchtower literature away. If anyone is "paying" for the literature, it's the publishers, and I'd bet those donations continue to decline.

"a brag item such as seen on the published yearly service report," - Many of us know that it's a padded figure.

"a recruiting tool," - The average Joe Publisher will never bring in any converts. Regular pioneers are more likely to bring in new "recruits".

"an identity point, a competition among members, and an isolating tool." - And a source of guilt and fear, too.

"Unpaid poor weather door to door literature distribution is a seen as a 'privilege' to be earned and maybe taken away. I think Phineas Taylor Barnum had it right." - Please pay $1 to see the extremely rare Egress. Thank you. This way please...

Dave

44

Here we go again . . . The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

by cruzanheart in

i got an email with an audio attachment (haven't listened to it) that's being passed around the witness community.

here's the written part of it anyway:.

i just wanted to let you know about an important piece of information i heard first hand, this morning (actually on a recording of a bethel representative giving a talk at the 2007 special day assembly in houston, tx).

PrimateDave

There is already a similar thread going on this subject, but admittedly without the extra text (thanks for the extra info).

Dave

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

PrimateDave

"Claiming that the preaching work has ended(as the brother from bethel plainly said), would be the biggest news since the donation arrangement." - Jourles

The donation arrangement was a result of losing a legal battle in order to avoid taxes on their business.

Claiming that Matt 24:14 has been fulfilled could open up the way to get the rank and file "Witnesses" off the street in the near future to avoid legal liabilities. Face it, we live in a litigious world now. It comes down to the idea that even volunteers distributing literature for a corporate entity are agents of that entity. I could imagine them continuing the preaching work with "specially qualified" (i.e. not pedophile) pioneers. Indeed, one would have to "reach out" for such a privilege and be "above reproach" in order to qualify.

I actually know some people who love the door-to-door work. However, I think that the vast majority of the R&F would welcome this change. Perhaps some who would like to leave now would actually stay if they didn't have to go door-to-door.

Dave

10

Where do I go from here?

by ddman in

i left a year or so ago, told my parents about that time, (that was barrel of monkeys).

at that point i have just put beliefs in the "backburner".

i feel like i was burn't out on religion in general by the last 30 years or so in the borg.

PrimateDave

So many new posters! Welcome all!

I was raised in "the truth". One thing that constantly gets drilled in is the idea that YOU have to have a PURPOSE in life. Well, why? Who says? The Watchtower Society? They hijack an old pre-Christian belief about Universal Sovereignty to get you to do whatever they want you to do, which is of course the busy work of distributing books and magazines. To get anyone to do such a disagreeable task as going house-to-house, they have to fit it into some grand scheme based on their interpretation of the Bible and constantly drill it into your head three or more days a week.

So, even though you may leave "the truth", you may still think you need to have something to do to give purpose to your life. Know what? Your purpose is just being here. Be in the moment. Be as a question. You can't change the past. You have no way of knowing what the future might bring. This moment. It's for you. Why settle for "answers" when the questions are so much more intriguing? To admit that one doesn't know is to welcome life joyfully. Let go of the fear and find peace.

Dave