"I think that the rulers of the future will be through corporations." - jwfacts
You don't think that's what is happening already?
When Corporations Rule the World
Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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29
Philosophically; Will Governments Remain as we Evolve?
by frankiespeakin ini government as we now know it, has only a very recent history, it is evolving too like us, and we all know there is a lot of unfairness in government, they build bombs that will keep them in power, they waste money on military to insure they stay rulling, appoint men to lead that are often very insensitive to others,and often many are, racist, nationalist, imperialist, and what have you.. freedom is just a bi-word, that means servitude, you serve us, we will tell you what to do, what to think.. just try exersizing some freedom they don't like and see what happens to you: say you decided one day to not pay your taxes because you didn't like the way they were wasting money, be it on a war they start, or thier big military spending,,or anything that is a reasonable complaint, and see what they will do,, they will take away your freedom, even inprison you, and bully you to live in line with some laws they pass, that are not even good, or that really are just plain none of thier business to interfere with.. now we know governement seemingly supplies us with what are considered to be good things, roads, education, makes lots of technology possible, and so forth.
notice i said seemingly, that can be debated, for sure.
more objectivity is requird to debate this imo.. so i would think it very probable, that if man evolves in greater consciousness, that government as we now know it will be so unrecognizable in the future, (because it keeps evolving too,) that we today would view it as no government at all> perhaps as we evovle, just like most dna is *junk dna, and still part of the dna,, but not used, so it may be with governments in the future.. *junk at least as we now think it is read, which could be subject to change if the ways they find out how to read dna ..
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PrimateDave
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How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?
by OnTheWayOut insome have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.
beliefs of the religion are correct.
i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .
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PrimateDave
1.
(Matthew 11:27) 27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.
(Mark 8:38) 38 For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he arrives in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”
(Mark 13:32) 32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.
etc.
2.
(Ezekiel 18:4) 4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.
3.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) 10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol, the place to which you are going.
(Luke 16:22-24) . . .“Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha´des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz´a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz´a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ (Edit: A parable. Why on earth would Jesus have used an illustration that shows someone being tormented after death if the condition of the dead is like "sleep"? One of those scriptures I always had a hard time reconciling when I was a Witness, and I never believed in hellfire in my life. I do understand the WTS explanation of the parable, however.)
(John 11:11-14) 11 He said these things, and after this he said to them: “Laz´a·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.” 12 Therefore the disciples said to him: “Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well.” 13 Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: “Laz´a·rus has died,
4.
(Matthew 5:5) 5 “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
(Matthew 6:9-10) . . .“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.
(2 Peter 3:13) 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
5.
(John 17:1-3) 17 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
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I suppose one can use other parts of the Bible to refute these beliefs or claim that they mean something different altogether. Then again, the above quotes from the NWT probably contain inaccurate translations, though the thought does seem to be conveyed clearly enough. I don't believe any of it anymore, regardless of translation.
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29
Philosophically; Will Governments Remain as we Evolve?
by frankiespeakin ini government as we now know it, has only a very recent history, it is evolving too like us, and we all know there is a lot of unfairness in government, they build bombs that will keep them in power, they waste money on military to insure they stay rulling, appoint men to lead that are often very insensitive to others,and often many are, racist, nationalist, imperialist, and what have you.. freedom is just a bi-word, that means servitude, you serve us, we will tell you what to do, what to think.. just try exersizing some freedom they don't like and see what happens to you: say you decided one day to not pay your taxes because you didn't like the way they were wasting money, be it on a war they start, or thier big military spending,,or anything that is a reasonable complaint, and see what they will do,, they will take away your freedom, even inprison you, and bully you to live in line with some laws they pass, that are not even good, or that really are just plain none of thier business to interfere with.. now we know governement seemingly supplies us with what are considered to be good things, roads, education, makes lots of technology possible, and so forth.
notice i said seemingly, that can be debated, for sure.
more objectivity is requird to debate this imo.. so i would think it very probable, that if man evolves in greater consciousness, that government as we now know it will be so unrecognizable in the future, (because it keeps evolving too,) that we today would view it as no government at all> perhaps as we evovle, just like most dna is *junk dna, and still part of the dna,, but not used, so it may be with governments in the future.. *junk at least as we now think it is read, which could be subject to change if the ways they find out how to read dna ..
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PrimateDave
"I think in America voting is the opiate of the masses. Voting enables the US citizens to tolerate the corrupt political rulers and feel they have a say in their destiny." - jaguarbass
This brings to mind another quote:
"If it's humiliating to be ruled, how much more degrading is it to choose our masters?" - John Zerzan, Elements of Refusal
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5
Report from a bookworm
by Snowcrash init's been a long time since i've posted here.
i think i made my account when i had what, just turned 19 i think?
i was doing research on some of my doubts then, but by that time, i had pretty much made up my mind to leave.
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PrimateDave
Greetings from another bookworm!
Recently, I've read books that question Jehovah's Witnesses, the Bible, Religion, Authority, Empire Culture, Civilization, Traditional and Industrial Agriculture, and even Work. I agree. We have the right to disagree!
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PrimateDave
Thanks, Nvr and Arthur. I didn't know if my words were coherent.
I have to give the credit where credit is due. I have been reading
For Your Own Good by Alice Miller. The following passage made quite
an impression on me:We admire people who oppose the regime in a totalitarian country and think they have courage or a "strong moral sense" or have remained "true to their principles" or the like. We may also smile at their naïveté, thinking, "Don't they realize that their words are of no use at all against this oppressive power? That they will have to pay dearly for their protest?"
Yet it is possible that both those who admire and those who scorn these protesters are missing the real point: individuals who refuse to adapt to a totalitarian regime are not doing so out of a sense of duty or because of naïveté but because they cannot help but be true to themselves. The longer I wrestle with these questions, the more I am inclined to see courage, integrity, and a capacity for love not as "virtues," not as moral categories, but as the consequences of a benign fate [i.e. someone who has not been emotionally abused throughout childhood].
Morality and performance of duty are artificial measures that become necessary when something essential is lacking. The more successfully a person was denied access to his or her feelings in childhood, the larger the arsenal of intellectual weapons and the supply of moral prostheses has to be, because morality and a sense of duty are not sources of strength or fruitful soil for genuine affection. Blood does not flow in artificial limbs; they are for sale and can serve many masters. What was considered good yesterday can--depending on the decree of government of party--be considered evil and corrupt today, and vice versa. But those who have spontaneous feelings can only be themselves. They have no other choice if they want to remain true to themselves. Rejection, ostracism, loss of love, and name calling will not fail to affect them; they will suffer as a result and will dread them, but once they have found their authentic self they will not want to lose it. And when they sense that something is being demanded of them to which their whole being says no, they cannot do it. They simply cannot.
This is the case with people who had the good fortune of being sure of their parents' love even if they had to disappoint certain parental expectations. Or with people who, although they did not have this good fortune to begin with, learned later--for example, in analysis--to risk the loss of love in order to regain their lost self. They will not be willing to relinquish it again for any price in the world.
I highly recommend reading this book, especially since it can be read in its entirety for free online at the link above.
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PrimateDave
I was always told that I should love Jehovah.
Fact is that I was never really taught what "love" is.
I was taught duty, morality, and the suppression of my true feelings.
If you amputate your legs, you can still get around in a wheelchair,
but you'll never feel the grass under your feet.
In other words, when we were children, many of us were taught to hide, suppress, or be ashamed of our true feelings.
Later, we were told that God is Love, but we never saw him or heard from him.
We could talk to him, we were told, but he never dignified us with a direct response.
Our parents said that they loved us, and then they spanked us and silenced us.
As emotional amputees, we were victimized by the Watchtower Society.
They told us that loving Jehovah meant attending meetings and distributing literature.
It was our duty to love Jehovah. There was no feeling in it.
We followed Jehovah's morality. There was no feeling in it.
Blood can never flow through prosthetic limbs.
They told us that loving Jehovah meant being afraid of him, fearing him.
Jehovah was like our own fathers. He was big and silent and could give you a whipping if you didn't behave.
Now that I'm grown up, I really do love my parents, but Jehovah is, to me, just the imaginary authoritarian
Sky Father invented by patriarchal priesthood a long time ago.
I guess you could say that I'm in recovery from Jehovah's "love".
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Philosophically; Will Governments Remain as we Evolve?
by frankiespeakin ini government as we now know it, has only a very recent history, it is evolving too like us, and we all know there is a lot of unfairness in government, they build bombs that will keep them in power, they waste money on military to insure they stay rulling, appoint men to lead that are often very insensitive to others,and often many are, racist, nationalist, imperialist, and what have you.. freedom is just a bi-word, that means servitude, you serve us, we will tell you what to do, what to think.. just try exersizing some freedom they don't like and see what happens to you: say you decided one day to not pay your taxes because you didn't like the way they were wasting money, be it on a war they start, or thier big military spending,,or anything that is a reasonable complaint, and see what they will do,, they will take away your freedom, even inprison you, and bully you to live in line with some laws they pass, that are not even good, or that really are just plain none of thier business to interfere with.. now we know governement seemingly supplies us with what are considered to be good things, roads, education, makes lots of technology possible, and so forth.
notice i said seemingly, that can be debated, for sure.
more objectivity is requird to debate this imo.. so i would think it very probable, that if man evolves in greater consciousness, that government as we now know it will be so unrecognizable in the future, (because it keeps evolving too,) that we today would view it as no government at all> perhaps as we evovle, just like most dna is *junk dna, and still part of the dna,, but not used, so it may be with governments in the future.. *junk at least as we now think it is read, which could be subject to change if the ways they find out how to read dna ..
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PrimateDave
Speaking as a borderline anarcho-primitivist, to me the word "Government" implies a coercive, hierarchical power structure that seeks to mold natural human beings and natural ecosystems to its own systemic needs, thereby destroying communities and their landbases. Evolution is a process of self organization that leads to partnership, diversity and sustainability.
I recently read an excellent book, The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth Community, by David C. Korten. Just click on the link for more information.
Before that I read Endgame Vol. 1: The Problem of Civilization by Derrick Jensen.
I believe that technology can only affect human evolution in a negative way. Technology has been used up to this point for power and profit at the expense of life and diversity. If civilization continues on its current path with the dominator power structures in control of WMD, then the future of human and non-human life on this planet could be a massive die off. There exists the chance that Empire civilization will crumble this century and possibly be replaced by partnership-based communities.
What's really going to happen? I don't know. I just don't believe in either a Star Trek techno-utopia or a Paradise Earth(tm) ruled over by Jay Hoover's oldest son.
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It's not bad, it's good. ....no, really.
by ozziepost intake a look at this from the wt's own site:.
such an examination will show that instead of bringing a cataclysmic end, armageddon will introduce a happy beginning for people who desire to live and thrive in a righteous new world.
you will be rewarded with a clear understanding of this vital scriptural truth as you consider the discussion of armageddons real meaning in the next article.. what do you think armageddon is?a nuclear holocaust an environmental disaster a collision of a celestial body with the earth divine destruction of the wicked .
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PrimateDave
Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the only ones with an Armageddon fixation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon
Just goes to show that organized religion isn't about having "truth", but about having good public relations.
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26
will my Mom be in some big trouble?
by freebird2000 init has been 13 years since i flew the coop,so i am not sure what changes or might i say new insight has come about.. here is the problem.
my mom who has been a witness for 18 years and is 73 years old has lymphoma of the brain.. in order to have a chance at all she is taking chemo and has decided to accept blood platlets.. she is still a loyal j.w.
and nothing has changed to her.she understands what she is doing but evidently thinks it won't matter.. under these circumstances does anyone know what or if they will take disciplinary action?.
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PrimateDave
*** w04 6/15 pp. 29-30 Questions From Readers ***
As transfusions of whole blood became common after World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses saw that this was contrary to God’s law—and we still believe that. Yet, medicine has changed over time. Today, most transfusions are not of whole blood but of one of its primary components: (1) red cells; (2) white cells; (3) platelets; (4) plasma (serum), the fluid part. Depending on the condition of the patient, physicians might prescribe red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Transfusing these major components allows a single unit of blood to be divided among more patients. Jehovah’s Witnesses hold that accepting whole blood or any of those four primary components violates God’s law.
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If you go to the hospital and are still a nominal Witness, don't tell them that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses because they may contact the local congregation on your behalf which might involve the HLC's unwanted intervention if you plan to accept treatment not approved by the "Watchtower Society Magazine and Book Club."
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Archangel Michael ...
by jelcat8224 indoes anyone know if the wts is still teaching that jesus is/was the archangel michael?
i think i remember hearing that they were trying to phase this teaching out.
i can't remember why.
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PrimateDave
If anyone noticed, the Bible Teach book (2005) is for so-called Bible studies, and therefore uses more subtle language to ease potential converts, some who may have been Trinitarians, into the idea that Michael, an angel, is Jesus in heaven.
The Watchtower (2006) minces no words that the official doctrine is that Michael is Jesus in heaven. I see no effort underway by the org to distance themselves from this doctrine, and why would they?
Dave