Thomas,
I'm not an elder, but from experience I know that the records get sent from one congregation secretary to another. The elder(s) will tell your in-laws that once they have settled into a congregation, then they can get the secretary to request the cards from the previous congregation. The elders also send a letter along with the cards. In the mean time, they will request that field service time be sent back to the old hall until the records are received at the new one. Any elders on the forum please correct me if I'm wrong.
Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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4
Need to get hold of record cards. Help from current or recent elders needed
by ThomasCovenant inmy brother-in-law and sister-in-law are on the fade and part of the plan is moving congregations to another part of the country.
the po is asking them which congregation to forward the record cards to.
bro in law doesn't want the record cards sent but wants to say that he'll take them and give them to the new po.
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PrimateDave
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Going to speak to my parents about the 'Truth"
by ThomasCovenant ini am going to approach my parents (dad an elder) later this summer with my true feelings about the wt society.
i have the cd rom and a lot of society books (plus of course the off limits wonders of google) but i happen to have just one bound volume of the watchtower 1953. it's a real gem!.
i intend to bring this book to my meeting with them as they won't be able to say it's apostate.
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PrimateDave
Hey dawg,
Probably I had better clarify what I mean by argument. I don't mean discussion or debate. I mean talking at someone on the opposing side of an issue, trying to force them to see my point of view. We see that on this forum a lot. People argue about the existence of God or Creation. They go into arguments with their minds made up. They get on the defensive. It turns into a shouting match. Each side claims victory. Nobody wins. That used to happen in service, too, now that I think about it.
The point of my post to Thomas is to show what I think could happen. Also, in my opinion his approach doesn't work. Quoting a wad of bland text and stating "that's why you're wrong" does not result in a fruitful discussion. Unfortunately, no one on this forum knows of a "magic bullet" that can get Witness friends and relatives to leave the Watchtower Book Club.
But lots of people are leaving. Why is that? It's different for each individual. For me, it was the fact that the world as I see it just didn't match up with the world as the Society portrays it. It got to the point where I just had to know once and for all whether my doubts were true or not. I answered my questions for myself. And then I left.
I told my family that I left because I didn't want to lie to them, pretending to be a Witness, acting as if I was doing something wrong and trying to hide it. By being honest with them, I showed them that I knew I was doing the right thing. I took the moral high ground from the start by letting them know that I was leaving even if it meant being shunned. I specifically told my sister that there was no need for me to argue my reasons with anyone, because the information is out there waiting to be read. In other words, I implied "do your own research, make up your own mind." It is now up to me to set a positive example, to be the kind brother and son who is there unconditionally.
Charles, we both want the same thing, I think. But I want the Watchtower Society to hurt, not my family. For that reason, it is my goal to prove the WTS a liar by not acting the role of "angry apostate". I will be there for any member of my family who secretly has doubts and wants to know what to do about them. Just being out and honest in a kind way from the start may eventually bring some of them around.
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Going to speak to my parents about the 'Truth"
by ThomasCovenant ini am going to approach my parents (dad an elder) later this summer with my true feelings about the wt society.
i have the cd rom and a lot of society books (plus of course the off limits wonders of google) but i happen to have just one bound volume of the watchtower 1953. it's a real gem!.
i intend to bring this book to my meeting with them as they won't be able to say it's apostate.
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PrimateDave
Hi Thomas,
For what it is worth, I can't blame you for wanting to share what you know with your parents. I'm in a similar situation. My parents were in the "Truth" since before I was born. Yes, that is my real age in my profile.
My mother has been a pioneer on and off, and she seems to always be conducting "Bible" studies. My father is an elder in their congregation. He is a good man. I can imagine how they felt last August (2006) when I emailed them that I no longer wanted to be a Witness. I was baptized back in '83, btw. But, I still wanted to keep in touch with them if at all possible.
The point is, I didn't want to argue with them about the "Truth" because i felt that it would hurt them even more. Since I love my parents, I didn't want to try to win arguments against them. Does anyone ever really win an argument? I gave them a reading list that pretty much explains how I came to my conclusion. They were just the titles of books that I had read and a few links to articles on the internet. I said that, as far as religion goes, unless they read from my list and ask me specific questions about it, we had nothing to discuss. I politely accepted their offer to continue receiving the Society's literature from them. The result is that I get to talk with them on the phone a few times a month and there are no bad feelings.
Discussions are fine, but only when both sides are well informed can they lead to understanding. If you approach your parents on this cold, you will probably not reach an understanding with them. They may get confused and upset. They will most assuredly go on the defensive. Now, if I put on my Witness suit and tie for a moment to address the 1953 Watchtower volume quotes you posted, here is what I would say (corresponding to your highlighted text):
1. The Society came out with new understanding with regards to the "generation" teaching. God's servants throughout history have been awaiting the end of this old world. We are so close to the end now. We can see the fulfillment of Bible prophecy right before our eyes. How can we give up now just as we are reaching the finish line, so to speak? Satan will try anything to get us to leave Jehovah, even using our own family against us. (They might see you as being used by Satan to get them to turn away from Jehovah.)
2. We trust in Jehovah God, not in men. We know what is right and wrong from the Bible. (Remember, they don't see the FDS like we do.)
3. Jehovah's people have gotten out of Babylon the Great. They no longer go to the Churches of Christendom. Everlasting life is a gift from God. The spiritual food we receive from His Spirit Directed Organization gives us the knowledge we need to gain God's approval. (Remember, the Kingdom Hall is not seen by Witnesses as a church.)
4. Using one's mind for personal study and meditation on God's Word builds in us an appreciation for God and his purposes. In contrast, filling our minds with the filth of this world leads to God's disapproval and ultimately death. Son, if you are having doubts, wouldn't it be better to talk to the elders about it. Pray to Jehovah about it. Read the Bible. Read the magazines and books. Study for the meetings. Be at all the meetings and go out in field service regularly. Stay away from bad associations and avoid the "wisdom" of Satan's world. (Ick. I feel like I need to wipe off my keyboard after typing all this crap!)
Hope this helps. It won't be easy. Tell them straight up you don't want to be a Witness. Don't give them any reason to hope that you will be coming back. If you present specific arguments, they may assume that they can win you back by proving those arguments wrong. As you can imagine, nobody wins. Best of luck. Think carefully about what you do.
Dave -
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New Release: "Come Be My Follower"
by truthseeker inanother delightful, spiritually meaty 192 page publication from the "faithful and discreet slave class".
front cover - jesus waving.. .
back cover - do you feel lost and in need of direction?
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PrimateDave
Thanks, truthseeker! Nice of you to endure that assembly for us (and miss out on a nice holiday weekend.)
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If Bush Used Nuclear Weapons On Iran Should He Be Tried As A War Criminal?
by frankiespeakin inwhat do you think?
should he be put on trial before a world court?
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PrimateDave
Sorry, Tyrone. Respectfully, I think we may have to agree to disagree. Radical Islam is a symptom of more profound issues and is certainly not the primary reason why the US is fighting a war in the middle east. I don't buy for one second that "they hate us for our freedoms." (quoting George Bush, "the Decider") That kind of propaganda is an insult to my intelligence.
Also, if Halliburton, Blackwater, and other recipients of Corporate Welfare aren't making a profit from the war business, then they wouldn't be in business, would they? Of course, the US has the power to print more and more Federal Reserve Notes to cover the costs, but those debt notes are losing value because they aren't pegged to anything but faith; faith that somehow, some time in the future, the US will be able to pay it's debt, or at least the interest on it.
I could go on and on, but what's the point? You've got your mind made up based on what you know. I've read quite a bit myself on US History, Foreign and Public Policy, Economics, Energy, Agriculture, Industry, and so on and so forth. Frankly, I've got no neat and tidy answers for you or anyone. I promote no popular "ism" as a panacea. I tell no one what to do, only to be informed. Like I said, no one that I know likes what is going on, but no one really knows how to stop it.
As you said, war is ugly and a crime. It is especially so when the most powerful country in the world is run by "tyrants whose only objective is to create mayhem and aspire to world domination." :)
Dave -
119
If Bush Used Nuclear Weapons On Iran Should He Be Tried As A War Criminal?
by frankiespeakin inwhat do you think?
should he be put on trial before a world court?
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PrimateDave
Can't say, really. Who does Bush work for? Who is making a profit from war? Do Iranian children deserve to be caught in the crossfire, as it were, because western corporations covet Iran's natural resources? Does anyone care about anything but money and property anymore?
When confronted with these issues, my mind just goes numb. I'm tired of the politics that feed off of hatred and ignorance. No one likes what's going on, but no one really knows how to stop it.
A great crime against humanity has been/is being committed by countries, including the United States, that use Depleted Uranium in conventional munitions. It is an environmental and humanitarian disaster almost worse than all out nuclear war; at least an all out nuclear war would cause a global uproar probably unlike any other in modern history. Meanwhile D. U. goes largely unnoticed because it is the stuff of conventional warfare, though the "fallout" is still a harmful radioactive substance that accumulates in the human body. Is this the kind of world our children and grandchildren get to inherit?
Dave -
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PrimateDave
Welcome spawnofnvr! Take good care of your dad, okay? Parents are hard to raise these days, aren't they!
Dave -
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My first and hopefully last vent on JWD
by nvrgnbk ini was talking to my trying-to-exit-the-cult fraternal twin brother yesterday about life, the jehovah's witness cult, and our jw parents.. he repeated, calmly and succintly, that he hates our parents.
i could not argue with him.
i used to, being a parent myself.
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PrimateDave
Primate Dave- Thanks for your words and compassion. ?Eres boricua de verdad? - nvr
No, soy un norteamericano. Vivo en Puerto Rico. Traduccion: No, I'm North American. I live in Puerto Rico.
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If you were an elder, what would you tell me?
by JH inok, lets say a witness goes up to an elder at the hall, and says, " what's going on" ???.
why didn't the end come by now ?.
why didn't the king of the north show up ?.
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PrimateDave
Well, Brother JH, your book study conductor was just telling me that you haven't gone out in the door to door work on Saturdays lately. Your meeting attendance has been a bit low as well. How are you doing with your personal study? Prayer? Could we arrange for a shepherding call with you some time this month? You know, Satan is like a roaring lion....
Dave (never an elder) -
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My first and hopefully last vent on JWD
by nvrgnbk ini was talking to my trying-to-exit-the-cult fraternal twin brother yesterday about life, the jehovah's witness cult, and our jw parents.. he repeated, calmly and succintly, that he hates our parents.
i could not argue with him.
i used to, being a parent myself.
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PrimateDave
Nvr, you can vent anytime you want to! I'm sorry to read that you and your brother had such a difficult time growing up. I'm glad to see that you are ending the cycle of abuse. I look forward to reading your son's posts.
No parent has the right to slap, spank, or beat a child. I recommend Alice Miller's For Your Own Good: Hidden cruelty in childrearing and the roots of violence. Read it for free at the link.
Dave