G. Neilson on HWA
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The first two entime characteristics were not possible before the unprecedented 20th Century. Therefore, the endtime Elijah could not restore all things until the 20th Century endtime of hugely increased knowledge and travel had begun.
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And since he restores all things, only the final Elijah could be the cause of the huge increase in spiritual knowledge necessary for spiritual purification, which therefore, could only have started when the endtime began in the 20th Century.
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The third fulfillment began precisely during this period, when the greatest known number of genuine members--other than in the Bible--were purified spiritually and inducted into the true Church. This happened under the leadership of Herbert W Armstrong, who restored all the doctrines in the Worldwide Church of God.
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For decades Herbert W Armstrong proclaimed that he was the first person in 18-and-a-half centuries to comprehensively restore all the doctrines of the true Church of God. That was a discreet way of claiming to be the endtime Elijah.
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The final Elijah is specifically called a prophet in Scripture (Malachi 4:4-6). Mr Armstrong repeated his claim to be Elijah in his final and most important book, Mystery of the Ages. Either that claim was correct, or Mr Armstrong was a false prophet. And if so, then so were and are the ministers who walk in his footsteps. That proposition is ludicrous. Mr Armstrong prophesied of the coming Kingdom of God to a wider audience than all the Bible prophets combined. And proclaimed the very same message all of the other prophets did, as Acts 3:19-21 shows...
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No-one else in the 20th Century (which alone can be regarded as the start of the endtime as prophesied in Daniel), can legitimately claim to have preceded Herbert W Armstrong in restoring as many truths in the Church.
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Therefore no-one else can legitimately claim to be Elijah...
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Mr Armstrong started Ambassador College in 1947 to train a ministry. The first five Evangelists in the Radio (later renamed Worldwide) Church of God, were ordained in 1952, some 21 years after Mr Armstrong's ordination--and 26 years after he first began to understand God's truth in 1926. Therefore, all of them--and everyone else--is too late to be the final Elijah.
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The great endtime Falling Away from God's truth cannot occur, until after Elijah's greater Restoration of All Things, from which so much truth can fall.
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To claim Herbert W Armstrong wasn't the final Elijah, is to claim that someone else is yet to restore ALL things.
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That scenario would mean NOTHING restored or taught by Herbert W Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God ministry in his day was of lasting value, because before Elijah's restoration everything must be in a comparative state of disrepair, until Elijah comes.
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What else could any supposed still-to-come Elijah restore, that would give anyone a better salvation than the one Herbert W Armstrong (under Christ's direction) already led the Church to?...
o 20 years after his death, the combined efforts of all the splinters of the Worldwide Church of God have so far managed to recruit a fraction of new members compared to HWA's efforts...
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The Plain Truth is, no-one else but Herbert W Armstrong is, was, or can be, the endtime Elijah.
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Can Elijah be one of the Two Winesses?
Since they come on the scene too late to be the first to restore all things in the endtime, the only way that Elijah can be one of them is if God brings him back.
smellsgood
JoinedPosts by smellsgood
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NO! WE HAVE THE TRUTH!
by smellsgood in' john the baptist did not do that!...have we, through this work, restored anything?
mr. armstrong was an apostle, more than a prophet, but of course, he just never ever ever said anything of the sort!
and john was also not "a prophet.
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smellsgood
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NO! WE HAVE THE TRUTH!
by smellsgood in' john the baptist did not do that!...have we, through this work, restored anything?
mr. armstrong was an apostle, more than a prophet, but of course, he just never ever ever said anything of the sort!
and john was also not "a prophet.
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smellsgood
Well, MutualRespect is greatly MISTAKEN! As a member of the Worldwide Church of God, WE HAVE THE TRUTH!
In the section of his book on The End Time Elijah (p.89) HWA states,
"The END-TIME Elijah had A COMMISSION TO RESTORE TRUTH, but only to the Church."
WE have restored first century Christianity!
"For decades Herbert W Armstrong PROCLAIMED THAT HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON IN EIGHTEEN AND A HALF CENTURIESs to comprehensively RESTORE ALL THE DOCTRINES OF THE TRUE CHURCH OF GOD. That was a discreet way of claiming to be the endtime Elijah." G. Neilson
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"No-one else in the 20th Century (which alone can be regarded as the start of the endtime as prophesied in Daniel), can legitimately claim to have preceded Herbert W Armstrong in RESTORING AS MANY TRUTHS IN THE Church." G.Neilson
SO THERE! YOUR CLAIM IS ILLEGITIMATE MUTUAL RESPECT!
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Time Has Run Out, Ronald Weinland wrote:
"THIS RESTORATION OF TRUTH, which occurred during the leadership of Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and the period of time we know as Philadelphia, should be an easy thing to acknowledge. Yes, GOD REVEALED FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH TO HIS CHURCH ONCE AGAIN. This era kept His word and did not deny His name. Sardis was known for just the opposite- letting the word of God die out as they themselves were dying spiritually- denying the life of God to live in and through them.
Our history is A TESTIMONY TO THE TRUTHd Mr. Armstrong to restore truth to His Church. Doors were opened by God that made this task possible- doors that no one could shut...
To deny that Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah to come before the end-time is either ignorant or willing denial of what is true concerning our history and what God did through him. It is God who RESTORED NECESSARY TRUTH to the Church so that a people would be ready for the second-coming of Jesus Christ."
We have restored the truths to the Church about the Nature of God, the United Nations, the celebrations of Christmas and Easter, THE YUCKY YUCKY TRINITY and the Afterlife.
"Although Mr. Armstrong understood that the Trinity WAS A LIE, God did not give him full understanding of what was true concerning Himself and His Son, Jesus Christ. God did not fully lead him out from the pollution OF THE FALSE TRINITY DOCTRINE. Mr. Armstrong still believed that Jesus Christ had eternally existed..." AS ONE OF THE ELOHIM (PLURAL DUH!)
Ron Weinland
Herbert W. Armstrong was prophecied in Scripture as the Second Elijah, and did he fulfill that role faithfully?? Yes he did!
WE are the ones WHO HAVE BEEN CHOSEN BY GOD TO DO THE PREACHING WORK TO ANNOUNCE THE SECOND COMING
"The great door that God has opened to this work is the facility to go INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL; the door of radio, the door of the printing press, plus many other such doors. God has set before us an open door and no MAN can shut it. God can shut it, and He will when the work is finished and the Philadelphia Church goes to a place of safety. ...The Laodicean Church is not going to he worthy to escape to a place of safety. When it is too late, they will find that the Church of Philadelphia has gone to safety" (What Is the "LAODICEAN CHURCH"? Good News, August 1959 Vol. VIII, Number 8).
AS GOD USED JOHN THE BAPTIST, to prepare for the physical Jesus, so have we prepared the way in the SPIRITUAL WILDERNESS to announce the SPIRITUAL coming of Supreme Power of CHRIST to his SPIRITUAL Temple! He's enthroned! And we announced it, and he works through us!
David Pack quotes from HWA co-worker letters. The, first, dated March 19, 1981, states (bolding mine),
As John the Baptist prepared the way, in the PHYSICAL wilderness of the Jordan River for the first coming of the HUMAN Jesus (both man and God), then coming to His MATERIAL temple, and to His PHYSICAL people Judah, ANNOUNCING the Kingdom of God to be set up more than 1,900 years later, SO God would use a human messenger in the SPIRITUAL wilderness of 20th-century religious confusion, to be a voice CRYING OUT the Gospel of the KINGDOM OF GOD, about the SPIRITUAL CHRIST, coming in SUPREME POWER AND GLORY to His SPIRITUAL TEMPLE, to actually ESTABLISH that spiritual KINGDOM OF GOD. "Brethren, HAS THAT BEEN DONE BY THIS CHURCH?
The second, dated, August 24, 1982, states,
John had come in the power and spirit of Elijah, but they did not recognize who he was. "Now why, then was Elijah YET, in the future, to come-just before the 'day of the Lord?' Verse 11, Jesus said to 'restore all things.' John the Baptist DID NOT do that!...Have WE, through this Work, RESTORED anything? Indeed we have! We have RESTORED the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST".
David Pack's booklet also quotes from HWA's final Feast of Trumpets sermon of September 16, 1985,
Ok, please, pay attention, WE have restored "vital doctrines of truth" that had been buried since 69 A.D.!
Mr. Armstrong WAS an Apostle, MORE than a prophet, but of course, he just never ever ever said ANYTHING of the sort! That's what he told me. "smellsgood, Never, ever ever did I ever say I was the second Elijah" And then he laughed.
"There was an Elijah to come and to restore things in the Church. THAT HAS HAPPENED and what has been restored is the government of God-and many of the truths, at least 17 or 18 principal, vital doctrines of truth, have been added to about the three that had survived in the Sardis era of the Church."
And John was also not "a prophet." Since he was a forerunner of Mr. Armstrong, this fact is important. Christ said that he (this one who was a type of Elijah) was actually "MORE THAN a prophet." This is a fascinating statement! The Bible says the Two Witnesses "are prophets" (Rev. 11:3, 10). Mr. Armstrong was an apostle. This means he also was "more than a prophet" (I Cor. 12:28-29; Eph. 4:11) and, at the same time, more like John the Baptist than either of the Two Witnesses...A related point needs examination. Mr. Armstrong has been accused of being a "false prophet" many times. Here is the point-and most never seemed to understand this: Mr. Armstrong was NEVER a prophet. He was always "more than" a prophet-he was an apostle! To those who apparently went out to "see a prophet," you missed the entire point of one of the greatest reasons why Mr. Armstrong was the final Elijah! It is also one of the reasons we can now see, in retrospect, his office was greater than that of the Two Witnesses (I, like the rest of the Church, once thought he would be one of them). He was an APOSTLE. They will be PROPHETS. To assert that the final Elijah will be one of the Witnesses is to, in fact, diminish-reduce-the office of Elijah (Pack D. I WILL SEND ELIJAH TO RESTORE ALL THINGS).
"It is revealed in Malachi 3:1-5 and 4:5-6 that God would raise up one in the power and spirit of Elijah, shortly prior to the Second Coming of Christ. In Matthew 17:11 Jesus said, even after John the Baptist had completed his mission, that this prophesied Elijah "truly shall first come, and restore all things." Although it is plainly revealed that John the Baptist had come in the power and spirit of Elijah, he did not restore anything. The human leader to be raised up somewhat shortly prior to Christ's Second Coming was to prepare the way--prepare the Church--for Christ's coming, and restore the truth that had been lost through the preceding eras of the Church. Also a door was to be opened for this leader and/or the Philadelphia era of the Church to fulfill Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." It was to be at a time when, for the first time in the history of mankind, the weapons of mass destruction were produced that could erase all humanity from the earth (Matt. 24:21-22). This also was to occur just before the Second Coming of Christ (verses 29-30). These prophecies have now definitely been fulfilled. The true gospel has been restored and has now gone in power into every nation on the face of the earth."
SURE HERBERT W. SET DATES, BUT HE IS AN IMPERFECT MAN, IT DOESN'T MEAN HE DOESN'T HAVE THE TRUTH. HE WAS JUST SO EAGER TO SEE THEIR FULFILLMENT.
"Satan showed his cleverness soon after Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong died, when through the Tkach administration, he persuaded ministers to avoid prophetic subjects! Typically Satan mixes some truth with error. It was said that the Church had made some mistakes - that Mr. Herbert Armstrong had set times and dates which proved to be incorrect. IN FACT, MR. HERBT ARMSTRONG, WITH HIS NATURAL ENTHUSIASM TO FINISH "THE WORK," WAS WARY ABOUT PREDICTING EVENTS WITH EXACTITUDE. HE ****COUCHED HIS REMARKS WITH PHRASES INDICATING THE POSSIBILITY RATHER THAN THEIR CERTAINTY OF ANY SUCH EVENTS HAPPENING AT A PARTICULAR TIME. Yet the Church was in error in respect to end-time chronology, specifically with regard to the 1260, 1290, and 1335 days of Daniel 12. By placing the thirty days of 1290 plus the forty-five days of 1335 prior to the beginning of the 1260 days, the Church left no room for the day of the Lord, which follows the 1260 days of the tribulation. By this reckoning, the millennium would begin at Christ's Second Coming. The argument for placing the thirty days, plus forty-five days ahead of the start of the tribulation was based upon the theory that the Church would require a total of seventy-five days to get to a place of safety, which it was thought then would be Petra in Jordan. Today we understand that the Church will be taken almost instantaneously to a place of safety (Lk. 17:34-37; Matt. 24:17-21, 36-41). With that misunderstanding corrected, we can now see that there are 1260 days of tribulation followed by thirty days for Christ to subdue the nations and a further forty-five days to prepare Jerusalem and the Messianic temple for the commencement of the millennium on the 1335th day, the Feast of Pentecost. The Church further compounded this error, in respect to end-time chronology, by pushing the three and one-half years for the tribulation back to two and one-half years, to make room for one year to include the day of the Lord, yet the Bible clearly gives a full three and one-half years for the tribulation and today we know the day of the Lord lasts thirty days. God's Church, Worldwide has understood this revised chronology since 1995. This also made us different. Apart from this Church group, I know of no other which has this understanding [Elliot R. GCWW. Hold Fast Letter June 2003] -
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Post your favorite dessert recipe
by reneeisorym ini am trying to find the best recipies for my new dessert business.
anyone have any they wouldn't mind sharing?
you could pm if you want to.
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smellsgood
http://www.1-800-bakery.com/images/lp_palmier_large.JPG
there's a pic of palmiers if you're not familiar with them. This place says it takes them four days to make the dough. The must fold and reroll it alot! It can only get better the more you roll it. Soooo good. -
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Post your favorite dessert recipe
by reneeisorym ini am trying to find the best recipies for my new dessert business.
anyone have any they wouldn't mind sharing?
you could pm if you want to.
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smellsgood
The Lemon Meringue pie is actually a recipe from Better Homes and Gardens
DON'T use the bottled lemon concentrate or juice, only the juice of fresh lemons!
* 1-1/2 cups sugar
* 3 tablespoons cornstarch
* 3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
* 1-1/2 cups water
* 3 slightly beaten egg yolks
* 2 tablespoons butter, cut up
* 1/2 to 2 teaspoons finely shredded lemon peel
* 1/3 cup lemon juice
* 3 egg whites
* 1 teaspoon lemon juice
* 6 tablespoons sugar
Directions
1. Prepare Baked Pastry Crust. In a medium saucepan stir together the 1-1/2 cups sugar, the cornstarch, and flour; gradually stir in water. Bring to boiling, stirring constantly. Reduce heat; cook and stir over medium heat for 2 minutes. Remove from heat. Gradually stir about 1 cup of the hot mixture into beaten egg yolks; pour yolk mixture into remaining hot mixture in saucepan. Bring to a gentle boil; cook for 2 minutes more, stirring constantly. Remove from heat; stir in butter and shredded lemon peel. Slowly stir in 1/3 cup lemon juice. Keep filling warm while preparing the meringue.
2. For meringue, in a large mixing bowl beat egg whites and 1 teaspoon lemon juice with an electric mixer on medium speed about 1 minute or until soft peaks form. (Renee, the recipe I usually use is 3 egg whites, 1/2 tsp. Vanilla, 1/4 tsp cream of tartar, 6 T. sugar) Gradually add 6 tablespoons sugar, beating on high speed about 4 minutes or until stiff peaks form and sugar dissolves. Pour warm filling into cooled crust. Immediately spread meringue over filling, carefully sealing to edge of crust to prevent shrinkage*. Bake in a 350 degree F. oven for 15 minutes. Cool on rack for 1 hour. Chill 3 to 6 hours before serving. Makes 8 servings.
Baked Pastry Crust: In a medium mixing bowl stir together 1-1/4 cups all-purpose flour and 1/4 teaspoon salt. Using a pastry blender, cut in 1/3 cup shortening until pieces are pea-size. Using 4 to 5 tablespoons cold water, sprinkle 1 tablespoon at a time over flour-shortening mixture until all the dough is moistened. Form dough into a ball. On a lightly floured surface, roll dough to a 12-inch circle. Ease pastry into 9-inch pie plate, being careful not to stretch pastry. Trim and flute edge. Prick bottom and sides well with fork. Line pastry with double thickness of foil. Bake in a 450 degree F. oven for 8 minutes. Remove foil and bake 5 to 6 minutes more or until golden. Cool. -
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Post your favorite dessert recipe
by reneeisorym ini am trying to find the best recipies for my new dessert business.
anyone have any they wouldn't mind sharing?
you could pm if you want to.
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smellsgood
Renee, this recipe is very precious to me. But I have worked up my will to share it *sigh* parting is such sweet sorrow.
Ok, it's lemon merengue pie. And it's nothing like the store bought ones whatsoever. I'm obsessed with the crust of pie being perfect, as well as using lemons. I think they are the most brilliant fruit around.
Anyways, I use puff pastry.. ever made it? It takes awhile, and most of the word is in the rolling of it. You make the french cookies palmiers and arks out of them. I use it for pie crust, because it is the best dough ever!
I just made it a few days ago, I have it memorized
Ingredients
4 cubes of butter
4 cups of flour
salt (I think)
Now, for the first part of pastry (P1), cut in ONE cube of butter into THREE cups of flour until it's nice and uniform. Then add 1 C. ICE water and knead it until it is nice and smooth.
Combine the remaining THREE cubes of butter with the remaining ONE cup of flour(P2). It's just like a butter patty, put it in the fridge.
After it's been in the fridge for a while, roll out P1 into a rectangle so it's like a 1/4 inch thick. Now, place P2 in the center, and fold the corners of P1 until its encasing P2 in the center, roll it very gently, try and keep the butter from squiching out, just until you can't roll it out with the butter bursting out. Fold it into a book by taking each end and having them meet in the center and then fold it over again.
Place it in the fridge for at least thirty minutes, take it out and roll it again, gently.
Repeat that process at least four times, and P1 and P2 should be totally combined. The more you refridgerate/roll it, the flakier it will be.
Now, if you just use this dough, you can roll it in SUGAR, I mean liberally, like your coating a ham with salt, this is of utmost importance Renee, roll it into a rectangle. Then roll both of the long ends of the rectangle to the center. Just slice it into 1" sections and bake at 400 degrees for twenty minutes or until it is nice golden pastry. -
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My Story
by LearningToFly inhello fellow forum members, i am very new here, and feel it is time to share a little about myself.
this site has gotten me quite riled up again, and even after many years my experience is not memorable and still upsets me when i think of it.
my beginning experience of joining the jw organization at age 6 was not unpleasant at all, and was not for many years.
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smellsgood
Wow, you are truly a strong and amazing Woman Learningtofly! That is so disgusting and disturbing that the children are not protected. Amazing, you can abuse the most vulnerable in the most heinous ways, and remain a good standing member, but you'll get disfellowshipped if you have a YWCA membership!
I'm sorry for your suffering, the organization should be made to answer for their evil. -
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Update: How my Cake business idea is going... (pics)
by reneeisorym inso .. at the suggestion of krw, i checked with the health department to find out the laws for my state.
i learned that they do not allow home bakeries here.
so i had to rethink some things.
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smellsgood
mmmmmmm. Cake.
I love cake Renee, alot. There can never be enough cakeries. Keep it up, and yum.
smellsgood (I AM YOUR TARGET MARKET) -
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We have the truth
by MutualRespectPlease ini will be respectful.
but in reading past posts it seems we are allowed to speak frankly?
i think jehovah's witnesses have the truth.
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smellsgood
Welcome to the forum MutualRespect.
I personally have never been a Witness. I have to disagree with you about the WT naturally. -
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I Wouldn't Be Here Today If.........
by smellsgood inmy dad had been a jehovah's witness.
he was in his early twenties when after zooming along on his dirtbike and running a stop sign, he collided with a vehicle, went sailing through the air and received life threatening injuries.
he was in rathdrum, idaho, and as far as i've heard it told, he stopped breathing for quite a long time.
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smellsgood
Dismembered, lol! I hope your roommate has received the proper scorn for such disgraceful behaviour. Did he become a Witless too?
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I Wouldn't Be Here Today If.........
by smellsgood inmy dad had been a jehovah's witness.
he was in his early twenties when after zooming along on his dirtbike and running a stop sign, he collided with a vehicle, went sailing through the air and received life threatening injuries.
he was in rathdrum, idaho, and as far as i've heard it told, he stopped breathing for quite a long time.
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smellsgood
"my dad nearly died because of that policy. he had a lot of luck to make it (blood cancer). of course the fact that he survived even though the doctors gave him lil' chances is proof how jehovah blessed his firm stand on blood."
Wow, that is amazing! I'm glad your dad is still around! For a time I forgot how many illnesses required the use of blood. I wasn't thinking of heart patients, cancer patients and the like. After I remembered that, it made the picture of the WT twisted policy that much more horrible. There really is so many that need blood.
About your Dad and blood cancer though, I just learned from MY Dad that his former bosses wife has blood cancer. She's in Seattle receiving care right now. I don't know much about it. Does it spread easily? Is it actually like cancer of the individual red or white blood cells? That seems like a horrible cancer to have, you can't really have a portion of your circulatory system removed.
She's probably getting transfusions if they are necessary.
The blood policy is barbaric. You're right, it certainly doesn't fit with scripture which they pretend they revere.
