done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  15

  Laughable - If it Wasn't So Hypocritical & Pathetic

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "we do not believe that.....those who take the lead in religious activities should have titles that elevate them above others.

  " (stated on the jw.borg site!).

  what about governing body member, faithful & discreet slave, branch overseer, .

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  done4good

  Typical Orwellian cult speak.

  d4g
  
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  37

  Seems very easy to leave now, why do people hesitate?

  by Xanthippe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i see people on here saying they've looked on several sites before this one, jwfacts, jwstruggle, youtube, etc., and then they make friends here, sometimes meeting up with ex-jws, it seems incredibly easy compared to leaving in 1989. .

  no internet, no amazon to find ex-jw books, no facebook to link up with ex-jw groups.

  still people find it so hard to leave.

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  done4good

  If it were just about the "truth", or the desire to have the truth, it would be easy for anyone to leave today. The reality is, it is not about that for most people, and never was.

  As some have noted here, to some extent the reason most find it hard to leave, is the fact that the organization as a whole plays upon our nature as social creatures. We do not naturally allow ourselves to be put into situations that cause us to separate ourselves from loved ones. Choosing to openly stop believing automatically creates such a situation. We all intrinsically know this.
  

  It takes a special person to leave on the desire for truth alone. I wish I was that good. It took some big f@cking tough life lessons that forced me to walk away from the WT. This was as a successful, educated adult at that.
  

  Self honesty is the most liberating thing a person can have, but it is very expensive.

  d4g
  
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  160

  "The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

  by Alive! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

  really?

  and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

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  done4good

  I'm getting the distinct impression that certain details of what I wrote have either been missed or are being deliberately ignored by a number of commenters here.
  
  So, before I offer any responses to some of the comments made, allow me to recap some key phrases from my post yesterday so as to reinforce the points I was making. I wrote . . .

  The abusive "shepherd" is not the "flock."
  
  The control [the Governing Body] exerts over the brothers and sisters is reprehensible, and several of its key theological doctrines are false and have misled and continue to mislead millions.
  
  The Governing Body and its Watchtower Society is not our "religion."
  
  The Family has been infected by a number of false teachings and has been wounded by the harmful control of the "wolf in sheep's clothing."
  
  Remaining with the Family is not the same as endorsing the Watchtower Society, just as remaining in solidarity with abused siblings (though they may suffer Stockholm Syndrome) is not the same as endorsing the abuser who abused them.

  I've noticed many here do not see (or perhaps refuse to see) a difference between the Watchtower Society and the people who collectively are the faith Family known as Jehovah's Witnesses. There is, in fact, a huge difference. By way of analogy, one (the Governing Body) is the "wolf in sheep's clothing," the other (the Family of brothers and sisters) is the "flock." They are not one and the same (any more than the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin during the Soviet era were one and the same; one was a "sheep" the other was the "wolf")..
  

  I've noticed that the term "organization" is employed by many here to refer to the "wolf" and the "flock" as a single entity, as if mutual partners in the commission of a crime. I reject that characterization outright, and for reasons that I already explained in my comments yesterday. It is why I rarely ever use the term "organization." Instead, I use the term "Family" to refer to the brothers and sisters as separate from the Governing Body and its Watchtower Society that has taken control over a large part of the Family (though not all of it, to be certain). It's vitally important to make a distinction between the two.
  

  Allow me to offer another analogy. We can liken the situation of the Witnesses under the control of the Governing Body to the Soviet Union era: the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin were not in willing collusion (at least not the vast majority of them) with the fascism under which they themselves were suffering. They were, in a very real way, captives. The Russian people are analogous to Christian witnesses of Jehovah as a faith Family. There was the Soviet Union, which is analogous to the Watchtower Society. It was operated by the Kremlin, which is analogous to the Governing Body. The population captive within the Soviet sphere of influence as a politically controlled group is analogous to "Jehovah's Witnesses." The communist/fascist ideology under which the people were politically controlled is analogous to the appellation "the Truth." Yet as a culture, the people were Russians, not Soviets. Their home was Russia, both historically and geographically. "Soviet" was an imposed political designation. When the Soviet Union fell, the people as Russians, though greatly wounded, remained.
  

  This is how I see the situation. Yes, many have escaped, and no doubt for good reasons. I do not blame them for this, nor do I disparage them for it. Yes, many of those escapees (though certainly not all) have become driven by a bitterness that blinds them to reason. Yet many, like myself, remain. In my case, it is by deliberate choice. Because the Family is my home and my culture; it is my "Russia." I do not support the Watchtower Society (the "Soviet Union") or its policies ("the Truth") under the control of the Governing Body (the "Kremlin"). As a dissident I work patiently from within, with my brothers and sisters. I will not abandon them, nor will I unfairly categorize them as being in collusion with the Watchtower Society as one "organization" willfully fomenting a crime of religious fascism.

  So, having recapped and reinforced my key points on this particular matter, I'll be back later to respond to some of the responses to my remarks from yesterday.

  BROTHER JERAMY

  
  

  Sorry Jeramy, but it is you that is missing the point. I recognize that you are new to this, and don't see it yet, but to state the most of us are missing or ignoring your points is nonsense. I am calling you on it. You are much too new to TTATT to get all of it. I have been a JW and out long long enough to know that.

  I understand why you are comparing the JW experience to Soviet Russia. I have some good friends that are Russian and grew up there in the Soviet era. While it is true that they were not allowed speak their minds openly, the level of thought control that goes with the JW experience was not there. They yearned for the freedoms most of us have. JWs actually think their "way of life" is better than most. Even if it is not the truth. Many JWs I know have said this.

  Since you think there is some "brotherhood" that actually was part of some form of "true" worship at one time, again I ask, (if you actually read my post), at what point did that way of worship become false? If that was not the intent of your statement, then I would have to ask why do you the JW are special? If you think they are, than it is you that is being somewhat arrogant. The JWs as a people are no better and no worse than anyone else. If you are hung up on this point, again I ask why?

  I know this post comes across quite blunt. I apologize for that in advance. My intent is to get you to think. The ex-JW community are not a bunch of angry disgruntled misfits as you have been told. We are human beings, along with the rest of the 7 billion on the planet. The JWs are nothing special. Just human, along with the rest of us. The GB, and whatever charlatans that existed before them that controlled the WTS, are nothing more than narcissistic individuals that actually believe they somehow had some special knowledge of how the universe operates, like all others that start a religion. No sane person would do such a thing.

  d4g
  
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  72

  Specific Comments By R&F About May Broadcast

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know there are many posts discussing the may money requesting televangalism...er... broadcast i mean!

  but i wanted to start one where anyone can put what they have heard any non-exjw, non-apostate witnesses say good or bad about the broadcast.

  i don't see how it can't rattle followers... but then again i might be surprised how they can twist things (2+2=5).

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  done4good

  a watcher -I haven't gotten any feedback from my Sisters yet, but I know how I feel about the May broadcast.

  I sometimes wonder if the GB in their ivory tower know we're in the middle of a recession/depression, and things are going to get WORSE, not better.
  

  I hope there are some rich Witnesses that can afford to give the GB what they want.

  I sure can't.

  Do you see the cognitive dissonance in this post, watcher? Look for it, if you don't.

  d4g
  
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  160

  "The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

  by Alive! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

  really?

  and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

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  done4good

  This is a good thread.

  Watcher, Close the Door, Jeramy:

  I understand where you all are coming from. Several years ago, I was where you are today to some extent. None of you would even be here, if you thought 100% obedience to the GB was necessary to be a JW. None of you obviously think that way, at this point in your lives.

  This is where things may get a bit harder, however. As you begin to question the veracity of the GB's teachings, and management style, at some point you need to ask, "If this is the truth, where did it all go wrong then?". What about that "light that gets brighter"? The GB taught you to judge other religions as "false", and their leaders as "corrupt". How do you know that the one you are still choosing to follow is not equally corrupt, just different?

  These are tough questions that you will need to ask, and there will be many more along the way. If you keep an open mind, you will find some of the answers initially disturbing. Try to understand what cognitive dissonance is, because this is what will prevent you from logically drawing the correct conclusions, and resorting to rationalizing your particular "understanding" of things. Also, don't expect to have all of the answers immediately. Try to become comfortable with the fact you are learning. Learning is good, always.

  d4g
  
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  72

  Specific Comments By R&F About May Broadcast

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know there are many posts discussing the may money requesting televangalism...er... broadcast i mean!

  but i wanted to start one where anyone can put what they have heard any non-exjw, non-apostate witnesses say good or bad about the broadcast.

  i don't see how it can't rattle followers... but then again i might be surprised how they can twist things (2+2=5).

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  done4good

  This video causes way too much cognitive dissonance for believers. Which is why you are not hearing a peep on pro-JW sites.

  There are only a few true nut jobs that actually would be moved to contribute more because of this. Most will choose to mentally run far, far away from this...

  I personally think it is going to backfire big time. I guess we will wait and see.
  

  d4g
  
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  16

  WT cash flow speculation

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so it was reported that the wt made $60,000,000 in canada last year (?).

  working on the assumption that this figure is from not only donations, but from property revenues and other ventures from the branch, we get a figure of $528 per publisher, per year.

  the calculation: 60,000,000 / 113,617 (2014 av pubs) = $528 a year per publisher.

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  done4good

  They don't have a cash flow problem. Their operating expenses are low in comparison to any business even near their size. They want to raise capital to build their new commercial style regional KHs. They don't want to tap into existing investments to do so. They want to have it both ways.

  After they build they will sell hundreds, if not thousands of local KHs, and reinvest the profit.

  This is being done so they can cover future operating expenses, since there is nothing more to cut. Most of everything they could cut was between 1990 and the present, since they adopted the so-called donation arrangement.
  

  The are afraid of future cash flow problems. It should not be too hard to understand why. They have an apathetic membership base, with most of its more successful members leaving altogether; They have pending abuse lawsuits, and more to come; They are getting seriously pressured in the media over shunning, the child abuse problem, and even their videos. The future does not look bright for their finances, and they are trying to stem the tide.

  d4g
  
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  25

  So Why Do They Need The Money?

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  so, as well reported, the latest jw broadcasting show is all about giving money.

  as far as the wt society goes they have been pretty candid about there not being enough funds to meet the expenditure.

  there are plenty of views on if this is really the case or not but underlying this is why are they spending so much money?.

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  done4good

  Vidiot has it pretty much right...

  With the addition of that all of the efforts taking place are being done to help sustain long-term solvency.

  d4g
  
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  130

  Atheist Miracles

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

  no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

  they keep me from getting bored.

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  done4good

  prologos - "No, i am convinced there is no creator, and there is no "(yet") likely.

  That is not an atheist's position. That is like saying "I am convinced there is no tooth fairy". I don't need to explain that. An atheist simply understands that no evidence exists for such an all knowing omniscient being. The burden of proof lies with the believer to prove such a being exists. An atheist is "convinced" of nothing.

  No one saying there is no "possibility" of such a being.
  

  d4g
  
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  130

  Atheist Miracles

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

  no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

  they keep me from getting bored.

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  done4good

  Perry - The dozens of cosmological constants, some of which I listed, that make our universe infinitesimally unlikely are not disputed by science.

  Really? The Einsteinian concept of a cosmological constant was debunked in the 1920s when Hubble postulated an inflationary universe.

  The only modern understanding of such, is a constant known as Lamda-CDM, which makes allowances for inflation and dark energy.

  Can you at least be current, and not resort to 100 year old understandings of science?

  d4g