done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  71

  A big hello and thank you

  by iwasblind in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just wanted to introduce myself and say a big hello to all of my mentally diseased friends.. i say friends because i have been lurking for some time so it feels like home (us lurkers are a bit scared and cautious so it takes a while).

  i won't bore you with too many details, but i am a born in, currently serving as the cobe of a congregation.

  my wife and i have pioneered for the last 10 years and were shaken awake by that ridiculous 15th july 2013 wt about the generation and 1914.. my wife who is much smarter than me has questioned for years.

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  done4good

  Welcome. Take your time, and don't feel pressured to make any uncomfortable changes too quickly.

  d4g
  
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  58

  If the Watchtower truly collapsed, how would you deal with your JW relatives?

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine the best case scenario.

  the watchtower society implodes from within even making final printed admissions that it is voluntarily dismantling it's mission and legally dissolving the corporations.

  oh happy day!

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  done4good

  I am not so sure an organizational "collapse" will equal JW's beliefs automatically evaporating. The behaviors, (such as shunning), are likely to endure for some time, as these are not only deeply ingrained, but also a product of the cognitive dissonance they experience. While the failure of the religion itself under a purely rational analysis, should make someone rethink their actions and behaviors, human nature simply does not work that way. They were JWs for a reason, and that underlying reasoning, (no matter how flawed), does not necessarily need an organization to exist. That said, I think those already "on the fence", will likely fall on the right side of it.
  

  Those that I care about, (so not everyone), that fall on the "right" side, will find me waiting for them. The others are mere former acquaintances.
  

  d4g
  
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  75

  Rumor about the Imitate Jesus Convention

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i saw a rumor a few weeks ago on reddit that the new imitate jesus convention is supposed to present new light and clarified understandings on the disfellowshipping/disassociation practices.. supposedly, if this rumor has any truth to it, there will be a talk given at the convention about how we should not be strict like the pharisees in how we shun people, loosening up some of the jw rules about this practice.. has anyone here heard anything about this or have more info on it?.

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  done4good

  I am not going to speculate on this. Rather, am going to provide the hard facts of reality regarding authoritarian organizations like the WT. There are basically four areas that are focused on, that provide the cornerstones of the foundation an authoritarian organization exists upon. Remove any one of them, and the whole superstructure falls apart. These are:

  1. DF/Shunning of dissident members. This in effect, "kills" them.

  2. Information control. This includes several levels of content manipulation, from how the organization disseminates its own information, to the higher education ban, etc.

  3. Busy work. This includes the field service, preparing and giving meeting parts, etc.

  4. Social separation: This includes holiday/birthday bans, discouragement from attending "worldly" events, etc.

  The organization will not be able to remove any one of these supporting areas, unless it is willing to remove all of them. If it were to succeed at that effort, the organization would no longer be authoritarian, hence no longer JW. However, it would be extremely difficult for the organization to even attempt such a sweeping change of policy, without implosion.This is yet another reason why no change, such as the one suggested by the OP is going to happen.
  

  They are playing a dangerous game, trying to fight the pressures of social evolution. This should no surprise coming from an authoritarian organization that rejects the principles of evolution to begin with. Both social and biological evolution follow the same principle of meme/gene mutation and replication. Society is evolving around them, and the organization is becoming increasingly out of touch with society in general. What will eventually happen is they will have to succumb to those evolutionary pressures, and this will mean either they fade away from existence or make sweeping changes to the four areas above. The latter is very unlikely, IMO.

  d4g
  
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  19

  Why would you want to wake up before the 90s?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you were a jw in the late 70s into the late 80s you might have been one of those brothers or sisters that just happened to be in the right kingdom hall and with the right people.

  during that time being a jw wasnt too bad if you were able to establish the right connections.

  a person could pioneer for a while and be appointed as a ministerial servant in a year or two and within 5 years you could be an elder in your twentys.

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  done4good

  I agree, the organization changed considerably after 1994.

  I started college, in 1991 when it was still considered taboo, (yes, I started before the new light of 1992). Apart from a couple of close friends that encouraged me to go, (and even helped), most people, (sometimes even myself), thought why bother, we are only two or three years from the "generation" being 80 years on. While I am extremely appreciative for that assistance today, I think some of those that lived through the 1975 fiasco already had different ideas by then, and were hedging their bets. My close friends that helped me get my education, I believe were of that mindset.

  After 1994, that mindset became the norm for those that remained. Unfortunately, what I see is that many of those folks are quite comfortable today as JWs, and as a result sense no need to make any changes in their lives. Many have good careers, take nice vacations, have nice homes, etc. They see this as god is blessing them in some manner, rather than their success being the exact product of their disregard for the organization's rule making. This always bothered me, even as I was once one of them.

  The recent changes however, are beginning to really make the organization look foolish, and my hope is that some of these folks will finally see it and walk away. Too many of them are just too intelligent and educated not to. I don't even recognize the organization I left 10 years ago.

  d4g
  
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  69

  Average Age of this Forum?

  by Garrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  heyo!.

  i'm quite interested in knowing the average age of those of us who use this forum.

  i made a quick strawpoll that you can find at the following link: http://strawpoll.me/4340636 just pick an age and click "vote" if you wish to participate.. admins: if this breaks any rules, i apologize in advance..

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  done4good

  42.
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  14

  2014 Pew Research on US Religion

  by adjusted knowledge in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the pew survey i've been reading is quite lengthy, but filled with interesting information.

  it really explains a lot of the social issues.

  impact of little education, donation issues, the issues of women finding marriage partners.

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  done4good

  Giordano - I was struck by the education figures: 63% had High School or Less.

  25% had some college.

  9% had college

  3% had post-graduate degree

  Right there you can see the future of this religion. They have put themselves in the same situation as the Shakers.....doomed to fail because of their own dogma and polices.

  Which is precisely why I state there is little to nothing strategic about the current changes being made, apart from reacting to the projected effects of a reduction in donations. Purely reactionary, which is typical for authoritarian systems, (religious or otherwise).

  d4g
  
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  36

  Something tells me 1914...

  by Monsieur in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after todays watchtower lesson, and the lessons coming, something tells me bigger and bigger new understandings are coming.

  and that it will culminate with 1914. notice how jesus is now coming, and no longer already here.

  the current understanding is both, he is here and hes also coming.

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  done4good

  I am not so sure, (at least at the moment), there is a deliberate effort to abandon 1914. That said, it could happen at any time. It will likely be one of the last of the esoteric teachings to go, however.

  More to the point, much of what is going on is just normal social evolution of an end-times religion. After a while, the supporting structure for end-times belief becomes less of such a structure. They didn't plan for this, but the end of the world never happened, so they naturally need to water down proprietary doctrines that support that belief in order to survive. It is obvious to those on the outside looking in, not so much to those too close to the organization.

  The organization is slowly evolving into a lifestyle religion, not unlike the LDS. Doctrines progressively mean less and less, and the social "norms" of identification, (however poorly supported by logic), as a JW become increasingly important. This is not so much a well designed strategy as it is just normal social evolution.

  d4g
  
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  37

  Seems very easy to leave now, why do people hesitate?

  by Xanthippe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i see people on here saying they've looked on several sites before this one, jwfacts, jwstruggle, youtube, etc., and then they make friends here, sometimes meeting up with ex-jws, it seems incredibly easy compared to leaving in 1989. .

  no internet, no amazon to find ex-jw books, no facebook to link up with ex-jw groups.

  still people find it so hard to leave.

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  done4good

  Xanthippe - I knew this would probably upset some people but I am not talking about those staying in for family. All the other reasons have amazed me over the years on here. I'm not ready. Where shall we go to? What about my social life? However, never an easy subject to broach but I think some of the answers have been really interesting and may help lurkers

  Much of the issues outside of the desire for normal social interaction with leaving have to do with existential anxieties. Certain personality types have a very difficult time not "knowing" what happens when they die, why we are here, etc. They would prefer to have any answer, (however wrong), rather than none. Guardian types typically fall into this category. (a broad MBTI type). My own presupposition, but I think it is at least educated.
  

  I personally did not experience this anxiety, however many do. Rational type personalities, (another broad MBTI type category), are likely the least to suffer from such anxiety, I would think. (and yet another presupposition).

  d4g
  
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  22

  Everything seems to be changing... why not birthdays?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control.

  - assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year.

  so all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members).

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  done4good

  Mephis - If one takes something like the principles behind eg Maslow's hierarchy of needs, JWs rarely meet all of them

  They are lucky to get "safety", barely get "love", almost never "esteem", and I doubt they know what "actualization" is.

  d4g
  
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  22

  Everything seems to be changing... why not birthdays?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control.

  - assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year.

  so all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members).

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  done4good

  The reason celebrations are banned is simple - control.

  It prevents a person from having normal endearing social involvement with family and other non-JWs.

  Typical cult behavior.
  

  d4g