Posts by richgirl

71

A big hello and thank you

by iwasblind in

i just wanted to introduce myself and say a big hello to all of my mentally diseased friends.. i say friends because i have been lurking for some time so it feels like home (us lurkers are a bit scared and cautious so it takes a while).

i won't bore you with too many details, but i am a born in, currently serving as the cobe of a congregation.

my wife and i have pioneered for the last 10 years and were shaken awake by that ridiculous 15th july 2013 wt about the generation and 1914.. my wife who is much smarter than me has questioned for years.

richgirl

Welcome iwasblind!! I am new to this forum too. also from down under....New Zealand in fact. (I posted as rupunzelsawake at jwstruggle) Boy, you really have your work cut out for you...It must be very difficult to maintain the facade and at the same time be true to yourself. However, who knows how you might be able to help thinking ones in the congregation before you inevitably leave. I will look forward to updates from you on the forum. Blessings to you brother, and to your wife!

36

"Be Kind to the Fornicators in the Congregation!" -- New August Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

have you noticed the article entitled "watch your associations in these last days" in the new august 2015 study watchtower?.

unless i'm reading it wrong, or somehow misinterpreting it, it is saying that we should be kind to intentional breakers of god's laws inside and outside the congregation, including fornicators, but that we must not be close associates with them.. are they already preparing for a shift in their disfellowshipping practices?.

here are the relevant paragraphs:.

richgirl

Maybe the GB don't want members to report fellow witnesses to elders because they would be tied up with JC meetings every night of the week. How discouragaing that would be. Congregation numbers would drop....and that wouldn't look good. Has everyone seen the movie "The Prodigal Returns"? The worst "associate" in that was Al, an active JW in the congregation. What made me laugh was in the movie the "goody-good JW" brother of the main character described the corporate world as a "shark infested ocean" he wouldn't want to swim in. My thought was that the movie really depicted the congregation as a shark infested ocean.......and the motto....get out of it. Well, probably going overboard here!

13

Jehovah’s Witnesses Recognize That People Have the Right to Change Religions, Just Not Their Religion

by Watchtower-Free in

by alexandra james.

http://jwvictims.org/2015/05/17/jehovahs-witnesses-recognize-that-people-have-the-right-to-change-religions-just-not-their-religion/.

jehovahs witnesses say that people have the right to change religions and that they deserve respect when it comes to that right, but this is not something that they offer to those who leave their religion.

richgirl

Great article Alexandra! The FAQ article also mentioned that when some of Jesus' disciples left off following him, he let them leave, and he did not coerce them into staying. I wonder how WT would define "coerce". As one of my "inquisitors" said to me, "We are not in the arm twisting business", as in forcing me to stay. At my JC meeting the same elder explained that we have free will, that they had "no trouble" with me doing things my way, and that they did not "judge me for that"!!! (Strange when clearly they were judging me. I was at a judicial meeting after all.) He said that everything I had presented to them "made a lot of sense". I explained that prior to the 1980s I would have been able to just walk away from the organisation without repercussions, but now they had the power to "hurt" me, to punish me. That is not "respect". I had to spell it out for them how I would be hurt, how I would now be treated and viewed by my friends, what lies my friends would now have to believe about me. I read a few quotes from WT magazines. They were clearly uncomfortable but went ahead and followed GB directives anyway, as I knew they would.

24

New Light! People CAN now be saved AFTER the Tribulation begins!

by FusionTheism in

for decades, i remember the society, publications, and elders saying that once the great tribulation begins, it is too late to repent or be saved.

they said the "door of the ark will have been closed.".

now, however, look at the brand-new clarified understanding / new light on this from jw.org, below.. they are still saying that the majority of worldly people will not be saved, but they are now saying it is possible.. the simplified july study watchtower says this:.

richgirl

Wow! The language in the simplified version suggests the possiblity of not many (in other words "few") members of Christendom switching to JW. The non-simplified edition seems to be saying there will not be a mass conversion to "true Chrisitanity" post gt trib (as articles in previous years have stated, eg July 15th 2013, pg 7, par 13, states "Before the great trib begins, people still have time to change their thinking....") It certainly is ambiguous though. Is it intentional ambiguity or just plain bad writing.

Perhaps many JWs have expected that the destruction of Bab the Gt would include the slaughter of all it's members......but really that would be impossible for then there would likely be few left to launch an attack on JWs (who are supposedly dwelling peacefully in the centre of the earth!) Even the UN, which JWs believe will attack false religion, is itself religious.....There is even a meditation/prayer room under the main Assembly room at the UN HQ. They protect religious sites, eg, the supposed birthplace of Buddha. The reference number for this site is rev666. I'm not joking!!! It's on their website. http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666

75

Rumor about the Imitate Jesus Convention

by FusionTheism in

i saw a rumor a few weeks ago on reddit that the new imitate jesus convention is supposed to present new light and clarified understandings on the disfellowshipping/disassociation practices.. supposedly, if this rumor has any truth to it, there will be a talk given at the convention about how we should not be strict like the pharisees in how we shun people, loosening up some of the jw rules about this practice.. has anyone here heard anything about this or have more info on it?.

richgirl

I wonder if there's anything to this rumour.

I was just reading a FAQ article on the jw website, "Do Jehovah's Witnesses Force people to change Religions?" There were some interesting points made which made me wonder if the writer is "awake"! Regarding Jesus it said, "When some of his disciples stumbled at what he said, he let them leave rather than coerce them into staying.—John 6:60-62, 66-68" (Added italics) I thought this a strange thing to bring up!

Further into the article it said, "The right to change religions is supported by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the United Nations has called “the foundation of international human rights law.” That document states that everyone has the “freedom to change his religion or belief” and “to seek, receive and impart information and ideas,” including religious ideas. * Of course, these rights carry with them the obligation to respect the rights of others both to maintain their beliefs and to reject ideas that they disagree with."

Could we possibly see a return to the pre-1980s situation, when a person could disassociate from the org without the threat of being shunned?

I read this in the August 2015 study edition in the article, "Watch Your Association in These Last Days". Paragraph 5 reads, "To avoid spoiling our useful habits, we must not have as close associates those who practice bad things. This applies not only to associating with unbelieving wrongdoers but also to associating with those who claim to worship Jehovah but who deliberately violate his laws. If such professing Christians engage in serious wrongdoing and do not repent, we do not continue to associate with them.—Rom. 16:17, 18."

Paragraph 7 reads in part, "Although we want to be kind even to those who do not follow God’s laws, we should not become their intimate associates or close friends."

I am wondering if this represents the beginning of a shift to a more scriptural approach to the treatment of wrong-doers in the congregation. I am not holding my breath. What do you all think?

70

If They Stopped Shunning Tomorrow?

by cofty in

imagine that the cult decided to stop shunning family members on the proviso that the dfd person was not actively trying to attack the cult.. (please don't debate whether or not this is likely - it's hypothetical).

how would you respond to your family?.

personally i think i would be less than cooperative.

richgirl

I was just reading this in the August 2015 study edition, regarding "association": (Par 5 "Watch Your Association in These Last Days") "To avoid spoiling our useful habits, we must not have as close associates those who practice bad things. This applies not only to associating with unbelieving wrongdoers but also to associating with those who claim to worship Jehovah but who deliberately violate his laws. If such professing Christians engage in serious wrongdoing and do not repent, we do not continue to associate with them.—Rom. 16:17, 18." Then par 7 reads in part: " Although we want to be kind even to those who do not follow God’s laws, we should not become their intimate associates or close friends. " You have to ask why is it that the one who "claims to worship Jehovah but who deliberately violates his laws" is not disfellowshipped and subsequently shunned? Rather, the 'good" JW is enouraged to "be kind" but to avoid close association. Is this possibly a lead up to "new light" regarding shunning? Somehow I doubt it...but.....

42

I asked where is the proof?

by disillusioned 2 in

arguing with my husband again, i asked where is the proof that jesus looked down on earth in 1919 and chose a small group of bible students in america apart from them saying it in their magazines.

also where is the proof that satan and his demons were cast down in 1914 just because first world war started.

neither of these things are in the bible only in their magazines.

richgirl

I wonder what your husband would think of appendix B1 in the revised NWT. Have a look. It appears that the GB are no longer convinced that Satan was cast down to the earth in 1914. It says, "about 1914". It also makes absolutely no mention whatsoever that Jesus was enthroned as King in 1914!!! Are they also unsure about that? Show your husband and ask him why he thinks that is!! I would be interested to know how he responds.

69

Average Age of this Forum?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo!.

i'm quite interested in knowing the average age of those of us who use this forum.

i made a quick strawpoll that you can find at the following link: http://strawpoll.me/4340636 just pick an age and click "vote" if you wish to participate.. admins: if this breaks any rules, i apologize in advance..

richgirl

50 in July

15

I'm late to the party on this Gog of Magog change...

by sd-7 in

so this may 2015 study edition...i know you guys have talked about it already, but wow.

this is classic.

mostly i like to revel in the presentation of these changes.

richgirl

For decades JWs have been told that the UN will attack false religion and then turn it's attention to them. At that point Jehovah would step in with Armageddon. But that's all changed with their recent "new light" on Gog of/and Magog (see July 15th 2015 WT), and the modern day "Assyrian." (See Nov 15th 2013 WT which says, " In the near future, Jehovah’s apparently vulnerable people will come under attack from the modern-day“Assyrian,” whose intent will be to wipe them out. The Scriptures refer to that attack as well as the attack of ‘Gog of Magog,’ the attack of “the king of the north,” and the attack of “the kings of the earth.” (Ezek. 38:2, 10-13; Dan. 11:40, 44, 45; Rev. 17:14; 19:19) Do these represent separate attacks? Not necessarily. The Bible could be referring to the same attack under different names. ") Now it seems that what they are suggesting is the UN (and associated nations) will dismantle/destroy false religion, (see chart July 15th 2013 WT), then there will be a "respite" (See also July 15th 2015). Then yet another coalition of nations, possibly lead by a figurative King of the North, will attack JWs. This new explanation is going to confuse a lot of JWs, if they can even be bothered to try and understand it. A problem they have with that explanation can be found by reading Rev 17:11-14. Verse 12 talks about the "wild beast" that JWs identify as the UN. Verse 14 says that it battles with the Lamb and loses. v11 says it goes off into destruction. Can there really be room for yet another entity to arrise even after the "eighth king" (identified as UN) goes off into destruction (which I presumed was at Armageddon)? Mmmm.

31

Where is it said , not to independently do deep study of scripture

by william draper in

i do believe it is written somewhere in jw literature .

richgirl

Hi! I'm new here! It was the 2012 DC talk, "Do Not Test God in Your Heart" that confirmed my decsion to leave the organisation. In that talk the brother rather forcefully dictated that we must NOT do "independant" (outside WT sources) bible study with others, that we must NOT visit websites, produce our own literature, or learn Hebrew or Greek. He said "You KNOW the truth!". Then he implied that if we did those things we were apostate!! It seemed he was using bully tactics and threats. (The talk should really have been, "Don't Test the GB in Your Heart".) What immediately came to my mind was the "evil slave" beating his fellow slaves (not that I believe that interpretation any more). Anyway I walked out after that and didn't return.....after 22 years in.