| I hurt as I read eveyones replies to this question. I guess I had none. While I was a JW (which was all my life) I had, I thought, plenty of friends. I guess having people who care for you and wish you would come back cannot be defined as a friend. Since I was raised a JW I had know real "worldly" friends. Occasionally I would go to a ball game or a business dinner with workmates but kepted that low key. After 42 years I moved to Florida from Maryland and within a year I was out (DF'd) and my family was back in Maryland. Lonely. A secret phone / email friendship with two from this area. Both have faded and they just didn't satisfy what I feel would be real friendships. I don't know any ex-JW's past or present of which I could established friendships. My really good friends in the JW's are still such. I hope that maybe one day I could offer friendship and support to any of these that may leave. I have made a few friends since and have learned to a new degree to appreciate these friendships. |
silversurfer1
JoinedPosts by silversurfer1
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How many 'real" friends did you ever really have in ther "truth'
by The Lone Ranger insure we got to know a lot of people, we knew a lot more people then the average person, but how many real friends did we ever have?
a friend that we could trust, that we could confine in.
i can say i had just one, bro x and even then i still had to be careful, bro x is an elder now and he tells me that im the only real friend hes ever had, he cant freely talk to anyone.
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silversurfer1
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Is the Internet An Answer to the JW Cliche Lament - "Where Else Can We Go?"
by Seeker4 inin his article at freeminds on when prophecies fail, about the witnesses and cognitive dissonance, randy watters wrote the following, including an insightful quote from barbara harrison grazzutti.
it may seem incomprehensible how the witnesses could ignore the implications of each disconfirmation.
outsiders view the witnesses as lacking common sense for not leaving the organization after numerous failures.
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silversurfer1
I never saw a time when I thought I would be out of this organization, but in the summer of 03' I had lost all desire to go to meetings. Totally disallusioned with their so-called Christian love that identified them as the only true org. I started surfing the net at work and at home when my family was at the meetings. I found one site where a guy had posted his "escape from the watchtower". It was in a book form with about 20 chapters. I was so engrossed in his story. He mentioned the "Crisis of Conscience" book (which I purchase and read immediately) Buying the book was made possible unexpectedly by my wife discovering what I was reading on the internet. (she would soon leave me because she deemed me a spiritual danger to our two sons.) At this point I knew I was never going back. For the first time I was outside the box and could see things I never saw before about the org. I guess it took a really bad expierence couple with years of turmoil as I serve as an elder and finally reading and becoming more informed via sites like these that helped me to take a stand not to be a part of them anymore. All in all I'd say these forums do indeed help people. If you leave this group one must realise that that is not equal to leaving Jehovah or more specifically Jesus. John 6:66-68 a passage they JW's love to quote to play on your mind. But the text states "to whom else" NOT where else, would you go away to. I realised I was not leaving Jesus. I was leaving a dangerous place, but not leaving Jesus. Actually my journey to the real Jesus had just begun.
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Another Deceitful Tactic by the WTBTS.
by gumby inas most informed jehovah's witnesses know, the wtbts is very good at painting a pretty picture of themselves by cleverly wording things to outsiders, yet not revealing the specifics of their beliefs.. below is an example from their official website regarding whether or not they shun members who choose to leave them.
they do not tell the public of the interogation they impose on members who wish to quietly leave ( fade ).. notice they mention how they are more than happy to restore those who exit, but fail to mention the types of questions they ask to those who leave them.. while they admit they shun those who verbally express they no longer wish to be a jehovahs witness, they do not tell the public they coerce that very statement from those who try to leave peacefully and quietly.
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silversurfer1
Anitar,
My heart goes out to you. To see this transformation in your Mom has to really tear you apart and frustrate you. I see this in my Mom as well and she is not nearly as zealous as your mom seems to be. The differance is, you saw your mother change before your eyes. I, on the other hand believed and lived as my mother did all my life only to wake up and now standing from a distance see the same vomit inducing situation in my mom as you have seen in yours. (kind of like a strange & twisted JW version of the old SciFi movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers) My mom argues that if it was good enough for me up to the age of 43 than it's good enough for her now and into the future. In those rare moments that she will allow me to try and reason with her, she can't answer a single question posed to her because she doesn't know anything (not to say many JW's don't know their beleifs well enough to engage you) after 40 years of nominal meeting attendance, no personal study and half hearted field service activity. Thus with frustration we end this particular part of our conversation. (Hell, my df'd brother, df'd for 15+ years, thinks I'm crazy because I KNOW I am in Christ hands and know I'll be with Him in heaven and won't have know conversation with me what so ever about the bible, thinking that I will corrupt him. Can you beleive that?) But I always hope that a seed has been planted with my mom (as well as my son's) and I pray that someone else may indeed water it. And I leave it to God to make it grow.
I have read many of your comments and I actually enjoy the angle you bring (not ever being personally contaminated as myself) because I can't say I would ever think of the ideas you express since I grew up a JW and thats all I knew. I think we all benefit from a wide range of views rather we agree with them or not. Keep'um coming.
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Another Deceitful Tactic by the WTBTS.
by gumby inas most informed jehovah's witnesses know, the wtbts is very good at painting a pretty picture of themselves by cleverly wording things to outsiders, yet not revealing the specifics of their beliefs.. below is an example from their official website regarding whether or not they shun members who choose to leave them.
they do not tell the public of the interogation they impose on members who wish to quietly leave ( fade ).. notice they mention how they are more than happy to restore those who exit, but fail to mention the types of questions they ask to those who leave them.. while they admit they shun those who verbally express they no longer wish to be a jehovahs witness, they do not tell the public they coerce that very statement from those who try to leave peacefully and quietly.
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silversurfer1
Gumby, I appreciate the points you've made here.
Anitar, I admire your strength of character that shines through in your comments.
I've served in a number of congregations and the bodies of elders all take on differant personalities.
But a few things seemed to be a constant in the 4 cong.'s that I served as an elder:
Little if any attention was ever given to JW's who were "inactive" irregardless of any direction from the GB.
Even when a list of these "inactive" and df's were provide, very few of these men followed up in a spirit of love to retieve these people back into the fold.
Embarrasing questions would be asked of individuals who had made there way back to a meeting and asked for help, like:
have you been immoral, how often, when was your last intimate encounter. (In their minds this help them gauge your heart as to the degree of remorse) / have you joined as a member of any church / have you used drugs, alcohol or smoking /
These questions formalated the basis for any help you may or may not get. I remember one guy who desparately wanted to be back in the fold (he was df') and he had had sex with somebody 4 or 5 months previous to coming back to the KH. The collective decision was for him to wait. Where we came up with "how long" is long enough logic, is hard to reconcile with love or logic. Needless to say after another month or so he stopped coming to the meetings. (good for him as I look in retrospect).
Even elders who care are bound by guidlines they can't move to far away from for fear of drawing attention from other elders.
Their perception of being a "clean org." takes prescendent over any individual, personal concern of the one who has left the group.
Iniatially, I simply stopped going to the meetings, after 6 weeks of this, my ex-wife decided to leave with our children, because she felt I was a spiritual danger after coming across a book I was reading and an internet site I was visiting. For 3 months no one bothered me until I got a call from one of the elders to meet with me for a judicial committee, I refused, a month later they called to inform me I was df'. I appealed, met with them, just to hear them tell me that since I did not want to meet with them earlier that I was not contrite and I told them in short that they were wrong and I did not need them. Very liberating to have lifted the shackles from off me in this manner. I wanted to drift away, but I finally had to confront them and it was for the best. I am comforted in Jesus words that, "wisdom is proved righteuous by it's work", and know that I will (actually I already have) have a opportunity to save my son's from this group. But back to the point, the only reason this appointed judicial committee got in contact with me was to clean their cong. Though I'll never understand on what grounds. Perhaps, my wife at the time told them what I'd been reading. But it's behind me now. I know this, self-sacrificing love, an un-conditional love, the love that Jesus said would identify his disciples (not an org.) simply cannot exist in a meaningful way with in this group. It does not have Jehovah's blessing nor does the Holy Spirit exist there to help it thrive. We who are out are blessed, don't worry if they don't come looking for you. You know they can't help you. But you can help others from your personal expierence with this group.
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September KM - 70 alterations in Revelation Climax Book
by dozy ini can't find a thread on this subject yet - if there is one , please delete this one.. the september kingdom ministry has a 4 page insert detailing the 70 alterations in the revelation climax book which is due to be studied at the book study shortly.
i'll provide scans if anyone is interested.. i will leave it up to more experienced analysts to examine the reasons for specific changes , but just a few brief observations for now:.
p32 box - "they were completely exonerated" changed to "charges against them were dropped" - interesting change of terminology for the 1918 watchtower eight.
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silversurfer1
Don't feel bad about your mom's response. I can relate. I get the same thing from my mom all the time, no matter how logical your argument might be. It's amazing how they think "worldly" people are so blind to the "truths" that the JW's preach and or teach. Yet they manifest the same blind, naive, narrow-minded unreasonableness and to a worse degree. And they can't see it or (I'm starting to think) they REFUSE to, for some of the reasons already mention in earlier comments here by others.
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silversurfer1
I've seen a woman endure physical and sexual abuse and her children physical, emotional and mental abuse. Practically all her family are JW's. So she endures this pain, feeling trapped with no place to go. I've seen a woman endure 30 years living with a man who was df'd and drunk almost every day. She stayed with him until she died. Both women lived in misery, you could see it in there face all the time. Just two examples of people who feel they can't leave abuse. I know a man who endures a wife that physically attacks him, calls him all types of names, withholds sex for months sometimes a year at a time, falls asleep during their family studies. Yet, he's still there, because his JW training tells him he must. The JW org. does not set out to be abusive but it is. And like these individuals I mention, most JW's feel they have no where to go (Luke6:66-68 taken way out of context and mis-applied) so they stay and endure the spiritual abuse. For those who break free it's unfortunate if they get sucked back. But you need to understand why you left, or why you where put out. Study to confirm your new and rising doubts about this group or how the their choice of discipline is not scriptural. To rediscover who you where before joining this group or discover who you could become now, now that you can explore who you are with out condemnation from others (the JW's). A person needs to heal and develope a positive and healthy feeling about oneself. Learning to still need others w/o being dependent on them for you happines, irregardless of who they are is also important, at least to me. I think these factors help an individual to leave and realise in time that you don't have to go back to that. I don't miss this group one bit and I grew up in the org. I won't go back for any friendship or family ties or feelings of guilt or for a lack of friends somewhere else, fear. etc. I know some of these things can weild overwhelming power over a person and so they may return. IF one does not create a new life for oneself I could see them returning to the old life they are familiar with.
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Making real friends
by choosing life ini have been away from the meetings for about a year now.
i recently attended a funeral and the witnesses mostly avoided me even though i am not disfellowshipped.
my problem is i need to replace my old friends because they look at me with such suspicion now.. i never had trouble making friends before i was a witness,but that was 30 years ago.
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silversurfer1
when we were in the JW org. we thought we had so many friends. 3 times a week at the KH for meetings and once or twice with your group for FS. It seemed to fill the need for friendship, companionship, association. I'd like to think I did make a few close friends during all those years. But once you're not a part of their group you come to realise the conditional aspect of these friendships. That can be somewhat disconcerting. For the most part many of these people where nothing more than associates in a company. It still may hurt and for sure there are adjustments to be made as a new circle of associates and hopefully friends developes in our new world (pardon the pun). I recall the "Insight" volume under friendship saying that even Jesus had only a few close intimate friends amongst all the people he came in contact with and that a lot of variables go into a potentially close friendship. Use the time we have to discover who we are, the person we've suppressed all these years to fit in with a group and become acceptable friends. I am sure we are all wonderful people with a lot to give in a frienship, a real and fulfilling relationship or two will develope probably in the most unexpected way. So keep your eyes open.
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Were YOU Depressed When You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini've seen soooo many witnesses taking meds or alcohol because of unhappiness and depression.
i know of one woman who regularly gos to her shrink and is the most depressed person that i know of.
personally, i believe it's because a jw can never do enough to satisfy god or the elders....what do you think?
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silversurfer1
it's a long story. I guess I'll add to the story as time progresses. I would like to say that when it comes to the depression that I saw being suffered by so many in the 4 congregations that I served in, as an elder body we where not equiped professionally to help. There were deep seated problems with many from marriage and sexual problems to alchohol, dealing with abuse both physical and sexual to down right mental problems. At the very least human compassion and a real desire to help or encourage these individuals should have been there, but often times it was not. From ignoring these JW sheep at the KH to never shepherding them in there homes more often than not these ones were left to fend for themselves. It was to much work. The self sacrificing love that was suppose to set the JW apart from others and was suppose to identify JW's as the only true org. was simply not there on the scale you would expect. It took growing up in one cong. and then moving through 4 others as a servant and visiting friends in various states in the mid-atlantic area and then finally in Florida for me to realise the trend towards neglect by the elders and the ever growing problem of individuals with the varying degrees of depression was not a local phenomena but a glaring reminder (that I'd ignored to long) that this was not "God's org."
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Were YOU Depressed When You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini've seen soooo many witnesses taking meds or alcohol because of unhappiness and depression.
i know of one woman who regularly gos to her shrink and is the most depressed person that i know of.
personally, i believe it's because a jw can never do enough to satisfy god or the elders....what do you think?
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silversurfer1
Thanks. Now that I got my feet wet, I'll jump into the conversations more often. Reading this board over the months have been enjoyable.
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Were YOU Depressed When You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini've seen soooo many witnesses taking meds or alcohol because of unhappiness and depression.
i know of one woman who regularly gos to her shrink and is the most depressed person that i know of.
personally, i believe it's because a jw can never do enough to satisfy god or the elders....what do you think?
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silversurfer1
First post of any kind any where. A little nervous. Raised as a JW, going through school was very stressful. Was shy early on so I did not like the attention that being a JW kid drew. As a teenager I intergrated better with other in school, but not being able to participate in organized sports or other after school activities and knowing I would not be able to go to college cause new stress, anxiety, depression. So like most JW's in there late teens I got married early. For the most part it was ok until I started serving as a MS and later as an elder. The more sadness, frustration, depression and seemingly unsolvable problems that I saw of others the more it bothered me, leading to bouts of depression. I was especially disturb and made a lot of enemies with other elders when I saw how little they reallu cared about others and would point it out to them. Obviously this added to bouts of depression. I gave to much, though I tried to be balanced. I am out now, though I've lost my family (ex-wife and two awesome sons) who are still faithful to the WTS. I have bouts of sadness but nothing like before. Very happy overall and a real hope that my boys may see the light one day now that their father has shown the way. Feeling a real love from my Heavenly Father and having comfort knowing the Holy Spirit resides within has changed my whole out look on life and I could never allow a thing like the WTS to bring me down to the sort of depression, anxiety and stress I felt almost on a daily basis while in the WTS. ( from age 2 until 43 years of age) Hope I didn't rambleto much for the first time and that I made some sense to you all.