what exactly is the cause of the wtbts total obsession with masturbation?.
is there any religion in the world that has printed so many articles on this topic?.
if your feelings are similart to those of luiz, pedro or andre, take courage.
Statistically 95% of males masturbate....5% are liars!!
Using WTS logic, wouldn't that mean that 95% of all males will eventually be homosexual? I believe the 1974/5 version of the youth book stated that about 45% of girls masterbate. I guess that percentage girls or something close to it would also end up being lesbian.
what exactly is the cause of the wtbts total obsession with masturbation?.
is there any religion in the world that has printed so many articles on this topic?.
if your feelings are similart to those of luiz, pedro or andre, take courage.
They are so obsessed with suppressing what is a natural thing that kids do when they are growing up. I'd be really interested where they get the idea that it's an unclean practice, and seeing some scriptural proof.
I remember a Circuit Overseer saying the reason the practice was unclean was because after you finish you go and wash yourself off. Wow! Well, personally, after having sex with my wife we would usually wash. So I guess marital sex was unclean too based on that logic.
many on this site have describe their exiting this group as "fading".
which i believe allows one to maintain some civil contact and or association with friends and family.
it probably helps when running into jw's in ones normal routine of life.
Many on this site have describe their exiting this group as "fading". Which I believe allows one to maintain some civil contact and or association with friends and family. It probably helps when running into JW's in ones normal routine of life. I did not have than opportunity. On a few occassions I have run into JW's and I get this temporary paralysis. I hate it but it happens just the same. It's been 3 years for me since I've been df'd, so when I see them it almost seems like an out of body experience, I'm not sure I'm seeing what I think I see, their names don't come to me, my mind goes blank as to what to do eventhough I've rehearst in my mind what I would do in this situation. I've said to myself that I do not live by their rules and therefore will be cordial, polite and speak irregardless of how I perceive they will respond. On the other hand, I know speaking would likely cause most to be irritated, offended at my seemingly disrespecting their rules or boundaries in this area. Can any here relate to what I'm saying? If you did not have the chance to "fade" on your own terms, how do you handle these arkward situations? Just last night while shopping with my girlfriend I happened to make eye contact unexpectedly with a sister from the last khall I was with. (she apparently worked at this dept store) I recognized her, but couldn't place where I knew her from or what her name was, but within seconds I knew she was a JW by the way she looked at me ( a stare with out an ounce of feeling ). I did not acknowledge that I knew her either, but only because I could not recall her name. How would some of you responded? A few minutes later another employee overheard my girlfriend and I humming a song being played over the store speakers and she started a friendly exhange with us. I pointed out to my girlfriend how amazing it is that on one hand a person you have known for awhile, conversed with, visited in their home, shared a meal, etc looks at you with a cold stare, like a zombie and on the other hand a complete stranger strikes up a conversation with you just out of the good cheer in their hearts. What a difference! I just want to handle these encounters more on my terms, treating them as I would anyone else. Taking the JW background into account, is that wrong?
i see lots of names here that i don't know, and with the wt on a campain to keep its followers from looking at "unaproved sites" .
i've got to wonder.....what are the stats?
how many are leaving ?
My observation is this, in the 4 congregations that I served as an elder the in-active, the irregular and the D/F'd made up 1/4 to 1/3 of the publishers in each of these congregations. If you added the low hour publisher (1 hr to 4 hr in field service a month) group I saw numbers approaching 1/2 the congregation who seemed to be drifting away. This is a fertile breeding ground of dis-contented people that are leaving the group.
sure we got to know a lot of people, we knew a lot more people then the average person, but how many real friends did we ever have?
a friend that we could trust, that we could confine in.
i can say i had just one, bro x and even then i still had to be careful, bro x is an elder now and he tells me that im the only real friend hes ever had, he cant freely talk to anyone.
| I hurt as I read eveyones replies to this question. I guess I had none. While I was a JW (which was all my life) I had, I thought, plenty of friends. I guess having people who care for you and wish you would come back cannot be defined as a friend. Since I was raised a JW I had know real "worldly" friends. Occasionally I would go to a ball game or a business dinner with workmates but kepted that low key. After 42 years I moved to Florida from Maryland and within a year I was out (DF'd) and my family was back in Maryland. Lonely. A secret phone / email friendship with two from this area. Both have faded and they just didn't satisfy what I feel would be real friendships. I don't know any ex-JW's past or present of which I could established friendships. My really good friends in the JW's are still such. I hope that maybe one day I could offer friendship and support to any of these that may leave. I have made a few friends since and have learned to a new degree to appreciate these friendships. |
in his article at freeminds on when prophecies fail, about the witnesses and cognitive dissonance, randy watters wrote the following, including an insightful quote from barbara harrison grazzutti.
it may seem incomprehensible how the witnesses could ignore the implications of each disconfirmation.
outsiders view the witnesses as lacking common sense for not leaving the organization after numerous failures.
I never saw a time when I thought I would be out of this organization, but in the summer of 03' I had lost all desire to go to meetings. Totally disallusioned with their so-called Christian love that identified them as the only true org. I started surfing the net at work and at home when my family was at the meetings. I found one site where a guy had posted his "escape from the watchtower". It was in a book form with about 20 chapters. I was so engrossed in his story. He mentioned the "Crisis of Conscience" book (which I purchase and read immediately) Buying the book was made possible unexpectedly by my wife discovering what I was reading on the internet. (she would soon leave me because she deemed me a spiritual danger to our two sons.) At this point I knew I was never going back. For the first time I was outside the box and could see things I never saw before about the org. I guess it took a really bad expierence couple with years of turmoil as I serve as an elder and finally reading and becoming more informed via sites like these that helped me to take a stand not to be a part of them anymore. All in all I'd say these forums do indeed help people. If you leave this group one must realise that that is not equal to leaving Jehovah or more specifically Jesus. John 6:66-68 a passage they JW's love to quote to play on your mind. But the text states "to whom else" NOT where else, would you go away to. I realised I was not leaving Jesus. I was leaving a dangerous place, but not leaving Jesus. Actually my journey to the real Jesus had just begun.
as most informed jehovah's witnesses know, the wtbts is very good at painting a pretty picture of themselves by cleverly wording things to outsiders, yet not revealing the specifics of their beliefs.. below is an example from their official website regarding whether or not they shun members who choose to leave them.
they do not tell the public of the interogation they impose on members who wish to quietly leave ( fade ).. notice they mention how they are more than happy to restore those who exit, but fail to mention the types of questions they ask to those who leave them.. while they admit they shun those who verbally express they no longer wish to be a jehovahs witness, they do not tell the public they coerce that very statement from those who try to leave peacefully and quietly.
quote: .
Anitar,
My heart goes out to you. To see this transformation in your Mom has to really tear you apart and frustrate you. I see this in my Mom as well and she is not nearly as zealous as your mom seems to be. The differance is, you saw your mother change before your eyes. I, on the other hand believed and lived as my mother did all my life only to wake up and now standing from a distance see the same vomit inducing situation in my mom as you have seen in yours. (kind of like a strange & twisted JW version of the old SciFi movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers) My mom argues that if it was good enough for me up to the age of 43 than it's good enough for her now and into the future. In those rare moments that she will allow me to try and reason with her, she can't answer a single question posed to her because she doesn't know anything (not to say many JW's don't know their beleifs well enough to engage you) after 40 years of nominal meeting attendance, no personal study and half hearted field service activity. Thus with frustration we end this particular part of our conversation. (Hell, my df'd brother, df'd for 15+ years, thinks I'm crazy because I KNOW I am in Christ hands and know I'll be with Him in heaven and won't have know conversation with me what so ever about the bible, thinking that I will corrupt him. Can you beleive that?) But I always hope that a seed has been planted with my mom (as well as my son's) and I pray that someone else may indeed water it. And I leave it to God to make it grow.
I have read many of your comments and I actually enjoy the angle you bring (not ever being personally contaminated as myself) because I can't say I would ever think of the ideas you express since I grew up a JW and thats all I knew. I think we all benefit from a wide range of views rather we agree with them or not. Keep'um coming.
as most informed jehovah's witnesses know, the wtbts is very good at painting a pretty picture of themselves by cleverly wording things to outsiders, yet not revealing the specifics of their beliefs.. below is an example from their official website regarding whether or not they shun members who choose to leave them.
they do not tell the public of the interogation they impose on members who wish to quietly leave ( fade ).. notice they mention how they are more than happy to restore those who exit, but fail to mention the types of questions they ask to those who leave them.. while they admit they shun those who verbally express they no longer wish to be a jehovahs witness, they do not tell the public they coerce that very statement from those who try to leave peacefully and quietly.
quote: .
Gumby, I appreciate the points you've made here.
Anitar, I admire your strength of character that shines through in your comments.
I've served in a number of congregations and the bodies of elders all take on differant personalities.
But a few things seemed to be a constant in the 4 cong.'s that I served as an elder:
Little if any attention was ever given to JW's who were "inactive" irregardless of any direction from the GB.
Even when a list of these "inactive" and df's were provide, very few of these men followed up in a spirit of love to retieve these people back into the fold.
Embarrasing questions would be asked of individuals who had made there way back to a meeting and asked for help, like:
have you been immoral, how often, when was your last intimate encounter. (In their minds this help them gauge your heart as to the degree of remorse) / have you joined as a member of any church / have you used drugs, alcohol or smoking /
These questions formalated the basis for any help you may or may not get. I remember one guy who desparately wanted to be back in the fold (he was df') and he had had sex with somebody 4 or 5 months previous to coming back to the KH. The collective decision was for him to wait. Where we came up with "how long" is long enough logic, is hard to reconcile with love or logic. Needless to say after another month or so he stopped coming to the meetings. (good for him as I look in retrospect).
Even elders who care are bound by guidlines they can't move to far away from for fear of drawing attention from other elders.
Their perception of being a "clean org." takes prescendent over any individual, personal concern of the one who has left the group.
Iniatially, I simply stopped going to the meetings, after 6 weeks of this, my ex-wife decided to leave with our children, because she felt I was a spiritual danger after coming across a book I was reading and an internet site I was visiting. For 3 months no one bothered me until I got a call from one of the elders to meet with me for a judicial committee, I refused, a month later they called to inform me I was df'. I appealed, met with them, just to hear them tell me that since I did not want to meet with them earlier that I was not contrite and I told them in short that they were wrong and I did not need them. Very liberating to have lifted the shackles from off me in this manner. I wanted to drift away, but I finally had to confront them and it was for the best. I am comforted in Jesus words that, "wisdom is proved righteuous by it's work", and know that I will (actually I already have) have a opportunity to save my son's from this group. But back to the point, the only reason this appointed judicial committee got in contact with me was to clean their cong. Though I'll never understand on what grounds. Perhaps, my wife at the time told them what I'd been reading. But it's behind me now. I know this, self-sacrificing love, an un-conditional love, the love that Jesus said would identify his disciples (not an org.) simply cannot exist in a meaningful way with in this group. It does not have Jehovah's blessing nor does the Holy Spirit exist there to help it thrive. We who are out are blessed, don't worry if they don't come looking for you. You know they can't help you. But you can help others from your personal expierence with this group.
i can't find a thread on this subject yet - if there is one , please delete this one.. the september kingdom ministry has a 4 page insert detailing the 70 alterations in the revelation climax book which is due to be studied at the book study shortly.
i'll provide scans if anyone is interested.. i will leave it up to more experienced analysts to examine the reasons for specific changes , but just a few brief observations for now:.
p32 box - "they were completely exonerated" changed to "charges against them were dropped" - interesting change of terminology for the 1918 watchtower eight.
Don't feel bad about your mom's response. I can relate. I get the same thing from my mom all the time, no matter how logical your argument might be. It's amazing how they think "worldly" people are so blind to the "truths" that the JW's preach and or teach. Yet they manifest the same blind, naive, narrow-minded unreasonableness and to a worse degree. And they can't see it or (I'm starting to think) they REFUSE to, for some of the reasons already mention in earlier comments here by others.
I've seen a woman endure physical and sexual abuse and her children physical, emotional and mental abuse. Practically all her family are JW's. So she endures this pain, feeling trapped with no place to go. I've seen a woman endure 30 years living with a man who was df'd and drunk almost every day. She stayed with him until she died. Both women lived in misery, you could see it in there face all the time. Just two examples of people who feel they can't leave abuse. I know a man who endures a wife that physically attacks him, calls him all types of names, withholds sex for months sometimes a year at a time, falls asleep during their family studies. Yet, he's still there, because his JW training tells him he must. The JW org. does not set out to be abusive but it is. And like these individuals I mention, most JW's feel they have no where to go (Luke6:66-68 taken way out of context and mis-applied) so they stay and endure the spiritual abuse. For those who break free it's unfortunate if they get sucked back. But you need to understand why you left, or why you where put out. Study to confirm your new and rising doubts about this group or how the their choice of discipline is not scriptural. To rediscover who you where before joining this group or discover who you could become now, now that you can explore who you are with out condemnation from others (the JW's). A person needs to heal and develope a positive and healthy feeling about oneself. Learning to still need others w/o being dependent on them for you happines, irregardless of who they are is also important, at least to me. I think these factors help an individual to leave and realise in time that you don't have to go back to that. I don't miss this group one bit and I grew up in the org. I won't go back for any friendship or family ties or feelings of guilt or for a lack of friends somewhere else, fear. etc. I know some of these things can weild overwhelming power over a person and so they may return. IF one does not create a new life for oneself I could see them returning to the old life they are familiar with.
