Just thought I'd chime in that,for this year at least and still, the "144,000" is still to be regarded as a literal number. That it is a literal # was mentioned during the talk at the memorial.
Hoping4Change
JoinedPosts by Hoping4Change
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288
Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!
by AnnOMaly inwatch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.
"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?
" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.
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Documentary Videos on Cults?
by Hoping4Change inrecently, the history channel has had a couple of fairly decent/informational programs on cults and how they operate (one was a general overview and the other was on jonestown).
i am wondering if there are any other wothwhile videos on/about cults, especially bible based cults available anywhere that do not come from the standpoint of trying to promote an alternative or more mainstream form of christianity.
it would be really nice to see a documentary on how bible based cults work and how they 'cherry-pick' scripture to get members to surrender their free-will to do anything 'those taking the lead' tell them to do.
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Hoping4Change
Recently, the History Channel has had a couple of fairly decent/informational programs on cults and how they operate (one was a general overview and the other was on Jonestown). I am wondering if there are any other wothwhile videos on/about cults, especially Bible based cults available anywhere that DO NOT come from the standpoint of trying to promote an alternative or more mainstream form of Christianity. It would be really nice to see a documentary on how bible based cults work and how they 'cherry-pick' scripture to get members to surrender their free-will to do anything 'those taking the lead' tell them to do. Such films would be a good mix of psychology, religion, sociology and history to demonstrate that some of the biggest problems with fringe religions is not necessarily that they dare to be different or have different interpretations of the Bible, but that they often do so in behaviorly destructive and abusive manners (and are in some cases intellectually dishonest with treatment of scripture). Perhaps kind of like taking the information found in Steve Hassan's books and making it accessable through video form. Do such videos exist?
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Happy Feet!
by Hoping4Change indid anyone else happen to see happy feet and notice some remarkably 'jw-like' similarities between jw mechanics, attitudes, behvaior, and disfellowshipping and the exect parrallel activity within the emperor perguin community, their attitudes and behavior towards mumbles, the elder penguins comments, actions and disfellowshipping of mumbles,as well as mumbles' own father actions/talk towards his son?
the likeness was uncanny..
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Hoping4Change
Did anyone else happen to see Happy Feet and notice some remarkably 'JW-like' similarities between JW mechanics, attitudes, behvaior, and disfellowshipping and the EXECT parrallel activity within the Emperor Perguin community, their attitudes and behavior towards Mumbles, the Elder Penguins comments, actions and disfellowshipping of Mumbles,as well as Mumbles' own father actions/talk towards his son? The likeness was uncanny.
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Disfellowshipping - How long to return?
by CaptK indoes anybody know how long it takes for one to get re-instated if you are not that well liked by the body of elders?
i was disfellowshiped for immorality almost 2 years ago.
with my job and attending college to keep in step with my field of work, i have only been attending the sunday talk & wt meeting every week.
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Hoping4Change
JGnat - you said "My husband is very much like you, Fred. He sincerely believes everything written in the literature. What he DOESN'T comprehend is the sub-culture of influence, status, and backbiting that runs a hall. Not being a "generational witness", my husband doesn't have anyone to speak to his cause. He's an outcast in suit and tie."
My s.o., is very similar. My s.o. just can't seem to understand the concepts of power,deceit, intellectual dishonesty and also the 'mind and scripture twisting' techniques used to keep people from exercising their Christian freedom and acting from their loving Christian hearts to see the 'true nature' of the 'spiritual food' being handed out every week, ESPECIALLY when it comes to this whole DA/DF/reinstatement thing. It is painful to watch a loved one,who is a decent Christian WITHOUT their meddling, go through so much agony to get reinstated. I watch as my s.o. can't figure out the divide between some of the writings in the literature, the bible and the actual bevhavior by other family members, people in the hall, and the elders. What JWs dont seem to understand is that THEY can be (and are in this case) the cause of "stumbling". How do other UBMs cope with this? (watching their loved one exist in anguish over this stuff). As a matter of fact, a more general question might be, "Are there any other forums that are especially geared toward us 'unbelieving mates' and coping with all of the issues that come with it?
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Watchtower--NGO With WANGO!
by Dogpatch inwatchtower--ngo with wango!
if the watchtower society truly believes in a "new world" then why are they joining organizations that are attempting to make this old one better?
activitieswango is unique in regularly bringing together a prestigious, international leadership of non-governmental organizations, as well as other prominent leaders, representing diverse nations, perspectives, and realms of activity, and who are integrally involved in advancing world peace and creating a better society and world.
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Hoping4Change
The word (fropm Princess Bride) is 'inconceviable'.
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BREAKING NEWS: 16:.02: FOSTER MOTHER GUILTY OF ABUSE
by fokyc inhttp://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=139760&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=139586&contentpk=16917608&folderpk=80785&pnodeid=139317.
date : 20.03.07. foster mother eunice spry has been found guilty of subjecting children in her care to two decades of horrific abuse.. the 62-year-old, from tewkesbury, beat them, fed them rat droppings, stopped them sleeping and rubbed their faces with sandpaper.
she thrust sticks down their throats when they misbehaved and made them eat dog food.. one daughter was forced to use a wheelchair for four years even though she was perfectly able to walk.. doctors, teachers and neighbours raised constant concerns about spry's treatment of the children but nothing was ever done by social services.. the catalogue of abuse only came to light when one of the children went to the jehovah's witness elders at the church the family attended.. spry, from tewkesbury, was found guilty of 26 charges of cruelty after a three week trial at bristol crown court.
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Hoping4Change
If one were to show this to a JW (or JW sypathizer), wouldn't they be likely to say that this woman was an a-typical case, that her 'outing' was Jehovah's way of cleansing the congregation, and that any put down of JW's in general becuase of this is just more persecution?
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Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!
by AnnOMaly inwatch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.
"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?
" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.
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Hoping4Change
Dozy - Was your 'speculative' QFR for real, or just 'tongue in cheek'? It seemed to me like a plausable way to go more "mainstream" and be able to say in field service (if confronted) "we dont teach that everyone doesnt go to heaven. We just know the number that goes is smaller than the great crowd. Only Jehovah knows the actual number."
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what is kool aid?
by dobbie inisee this mentioned alot here but haven't a clue what it is?
!can somebody put me out of my misery please?i keep thinking of plasters but that's band aid!thanks.
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Hoping4Change
If someone says to you "dont drink the kool aid" or "thats just kool aid", in reference to some information being given, it is meant to warn you against taking the information at it's "face value" becuase it is believed the information is believed to be false, erroneous, ill-conceived, or ill-logical, despite its; appearance. As a reference, one might say that a good deal of the justification and logic used by JWs for their blood policy (not to mention some of the 'facts' used to support their position) is nothing but "kool aid".
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what is kool aid?
by dobbie inisee this mentioned alot here but haven't a clue what it is?
!can somebody put me out of my misery please?i keep thinking of plasters but that's band aid!thanks.
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Hoping4Change
Kool aid is a sweetened drink mix used to make something akin to juice. In casual conversation (and especially in talks critical of a position set forth), the phrase "drinking kool aid" is a reference to the Jonestown Colony cult where a mass murder/suicide took place under direction from Rev. Jim Jones - many congregants either voluntarily or forced to drank a poison "kool aid" drink resulting in their deaths.
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April 15 WT: Society acknowledges some find its teachings hard to accept
by truthseeker inthe april 15, 2007 watchtower revolves around the congregation, it's benefits and requirements.. the second study article is let the congregation be built up.
under the subheading sticking with the congregation the society acknowledges those who cannot accept a certain teaching even after doing research in their publications.. .
para 14 consider another possibility involving the congregation.
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Hoping4Change
Sorry to have to have to say this (becuase I typically prefer to stay away from using this label despite what I believe), but articles like this so easily point out why this group is so often called a Mind Control Cult. (See http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/articles/BITE.htm#information for Steve Hassan's B.I.T.E model for Mind Control. I believe Lady Lee also has a fine post on here somewhere that compares point by point, the BITE model and the JW practices.) Sorry JW sympathizers, until the organization stops using this technique (as in this article) to guilt people into staying with an orgnaization whose policies have repeatedly broken families as well as led to unneceesary deaths "in the name of Jehovah", this "religion" will ALWAYS be rightfully called a high mind control cult.)