Posts by LisaRose

41

YAWEHLAND - Imagine a country where Jehovah's Witnesses are the majority

by EdenOne in

jw
friends

in 2018, cyprus goes bankrupt (again).

many of its inhabitants, lacking jobs and prospectives of a better future, emigrate to more prosperous countries.

cyprus' society is on the brink of collapse.

LisaRose

I would imagine it would be much like Bethel. A rigid hierarchy based strictly on seniority and who you know. You would be assigned a job, you would have no choice. You would be paid virtually nothing, live in a dorm style room, and eat whatever cheap food was served to you. You medical needs would be paid for, as long as you don't need anything more than an office visit, no hospitalization, scans, surgery or cancer treatment.

You would have no free speech, no civil rights, no legal recourse if another Witness stole from you (can't bring reproach!). If you are a woman you will be a second class citizen, no positions of responsibility. No matter what your age or abilities you would be considered less than a sixteen year old baptized brother. Is your husband beating you? Too bad, he is your husband and head of the family. We're you raped? Too bad, you should have fought harder and you probably brought it on yourself anyway.

Your entertainment would be severely restricted, your quarters will be regularly searched for contraband. Television would consist of g rated movies and old episodes of Matlock. Reading any non Watchtower literature would be discouraged if not banned.

At any time you could be disfellowshipped over anything three elders agree on, there will be no recourse and no appeal. You would lose your job, your housing and all your family and acquaintances. You would have no choice but to leave your country or live as an outcast, with no means of support.

It would be a paradise for child molesters, no police or justice system to worry about. As pedophilia is often swept under the rug they would be free to molest anyone they want, especially if they were an elder or related to one. Who would dare to complain if the elders refuse to do anything?

No thank you.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

LisaRose

Sometimes peace comes with acceptance of things you cannot change. I doubt there is any way to reason with your parents, it's not about logic or reason, your parents are under cult mind control. You cannot counteract thirty years of indoctrination with a conversation or two. They have been trained to be fearful, on a very deep level, if challenged with different viewpoints, especially from former members. Fear like that is very powerful.

Even if you could convince them, I am not sure your parents would be better off, change is hard, especially when you are older, it's a way of life for them. I know that's hard, my mother died while she was shunning me, but I take comfort in the fact that she only did it because she felt she had to.

If you choose to reason with them, you might remind them of this, the July 2009 Awake p29:

“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”

Also, if you consider the scripture used to justify disfellowshipping, you can see it actually is talking about something very different than what is practiced by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I cor 5:11" actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one."

Notice that it talks about someone who is a so-called brother. While that might have applied to you previously, it hardly applies now. It also says nothing about a judicial committee, any formal announcement, or parents shunning children even when they are no longer a part of the congregation. It simply means that if you know a person who pretends to be a Christian, who does these things, you don't talk to them.

"12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?…"

The intent was obviously to keep the congregation clean, so what purpose does it serve now? What point is there to shun someone who is not even in the congregation anymore? You minght tell them that that many people have committed suicide after being disfellowshipped, and that many people have been disfelowshipped even though they had done nothing wrong. Also many people have repented and attended meetings for months or years but were never reinstated. It is also evident that elders, or the family of elders are treated more eminently that others.

You might remind them of the story of the prodigal son, who was warmly welcomed back, even after many year of a sinful life. His didn't greet him with a judicial committee, he didn't interrogate him, he didn't judge him, he threw his arms around him and had a feast. Also remind them of the story of the adulterous woman, where Jesus said that whoever is without sin should cast the first stone.

26

Called on a DF'd person today.

by kairos in

wow, what a surprise that was!.

i expected a warm welcome, as this was someone i have known for a very long time.. nope, uber disfellowshipped jw.

totally caught me off guard.

LisaRose

This doesn't surprise me. If you are doing something you believe is wrong and are disfellowshipped, your guilt will be overwhelming and the shunning is very painful, so your focus is on fixing your own issues and getting back in, you are probably not thinking about the faults of the Watchtower.

Is different for those that lost their faith before they got disfellowshipped of course. Also, if you were disfelowshipped in error and didn't actually do anything wrong, that might cause you to start questioning things.

14

How to reply to- "just wait on Jehovah".

by runForever in

jw
friends

all you have to say is "who says jehovah is not using me right now?

" something to that effect.. if they say you are just a low-life nobody just point out amos nipper of figs.

and if they say "do you think you're a prophet?

LisaRose

If you found a Catholic in service and exhaustively showed him from the Bible all the things that were wrong with the Catholic church, only to have him say "I'm just going to have to wait on Jesus to fix things" what do you day to that?

Are you serious? Does the fact that a Catholic is willing to overlook the faults in his own religion make it right for a Jehovah's Witness to ignore the faults in his own religion?

"The other guy does it too" has never been an excuse, even less so in this case, as the Watchtower has criticised the Catholic church more than any other religion, acting as if they are so much better, the only true and good religion.

38

Decided to sign up...

by campaign of hate in

so i decided to sign up after many years of lurking.

started researching after finding out about ray franz, which inevitably brought me to this site.. i'm still well and truly inn, but don't want to give any information out, i'm sure you guys know the reasons.. since "jay double you .

org" came online, there has been a definite sense of hysteria with everyone who is "inn", and i get a feeling it's going to get a whole lot crazier as the years press on.. one point i would like to raise is that i feel, without a doubt, that 2034 is going to be the new finish line.

LisaRose

I was reading a book the other day, it was historical fiction, but took place during the time of the Millerites, a group following William Miller. The believed based on some chronology he pulled out of his rear that the end was coming in 1843. People actually didn't bother bringing in the crops or milking the cows, they went up on the roof of their barn and waited for the end. At the end of the night they sheepishly got down and went on with their lives.

The millerites did not give up, they then explained that Christ had come invisibly (sound familiar?) Various factions come up with alternate theories and new dates, one group becoming the Seventh Day adventists, and of course CT Russel browsed heavily from them for his own special end time predictions. The bible states quite cleary that no one knows the day or the hour, so anyone making any prediction is going against the scriptures, but they just keep doing it because fear is useful to manipulate people. The more things change, the more they remain the same. It's a con game that has been going on for a while.

It made me realize that I was just as foolish as those people standing on the roof of their barn. It's hard thing to have to admit you were wrong, but the alternative is to remain in ignorance, afraid to see reality.

33

Losing Faith

by cappytan in

i've always been a "spiritual" person.

i've been an avid bible reader since as early as i can remember.

i read the bible cover to cover for the first time when i was about 17 years old and have read it at least twice more since then.

LisaRose

It's a dilemma, one we all have faced. No one can make that decision for you, each person and their circumstances are different. There is a price to be paid no matter what you do, it's hard living a lie, it takes its toll. It's also hard to lose family and friends, the harsh disfellowshiping policies are there to keep people from leaving, being shunned is very painful.

I am glad I left, I would never go back, but that doesn't work for everyone.

54

Separated from a loveless Marriage

by PLAYGROUND in

i don't know where to start.

i got married a year and half ago.

some months into the marriage things where discovered.

LisaRose

Erased post, the cat stepped on my Kindle, her post was way off topic.

54

Separated from a loveless Marriage

by PLAYGROUND in

i don't know where to start.

i got married a year and half ago.

some months into the marriage things where discovered.

LisaRose

I spent 28 years in such a marriage, trust me, it won't get better. I finally realized that no God of love would expect me to live like that, so I left the husband and the religion. That was fifteen years ago and I have never been happier.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

LisaRose

I know of no discussion forum that doesn't involve some debate, it's the nature of the beast. There are some topics that are always going to be contentious, it's pretty simple to avoid them if you don't like that kind of thing. I find them interesting, but sometimes I'm just not in the mood for it, so I avoid them, no problem. It is what it is.

23

When they ask in exasperation; "But what if it IS the Truth?"

by nicolaou in

this is how robert ingersoll responded to a fundamentalist's question, 'what if it's the truth?

' back in the 19th century.

"why," they say to me, "suppose all this should turn out to be true, and you should come to the day of judgement and find all these things to be true.

LisaRose

You could ask yourself what if Martians land on the earth, or what if pigs fly, or any of a thousand other improbable "what ifs". The question is not "what if it's the truth" but why would it be?

You just have to use common sense and reason, and the possibility that some almighty creator made humans and then sat idly by while his creation killed each other in a million cruel ways seems quite remote to me.

I go with the odds.