Posts by LisaRose

57

Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

by Simon in

it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

LisaRose

I think it's impossible to know if the suicide rate is higher among Jehovah's Witnesses. I personally knew of quite a few, more than six, including a family member who attempted, which seems high, but anecdotal accounts don't equal actual statistics, as we all know.

The things they do that might tend to contribute to a higher suicide rate

All or nothing, black or white thinking, you are either "whole souled" for Jehovah or bird food at Armageddon.
Disfellowshipping policies that cut people off from family and friends
Distrust of psychological counseling
Policy of discouraging higher education and the cascading effect of lack of job opportunities, less access to health care and stress due to lower incomes.

Things which might mitigate the above:

Social support as long as you are not disfellowshiped.
Psychological boost because of believing you have all the answers and won't be affected by the world's problems.
Belief that suicide is a sin and will prevent you from a resurrection.

It's hard for me to see how they couldn't have a higher than average suicide rate, but I can't really say I'm impartial on the topic.

41

Can Trump Be Forced To Take A Psychological Exam To Prove His Mental Fitness (Narcissistic Pernsonality Disorder) A Mater Of National Secrui

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i'm think with the president having the ability to use nuclear weapons the need for a psychological exam should be a must for world safety because of the very real damage an easily offended narcissist could do if in a narcissistic rage he had access to nuclear weapons.

since he has clearly shown he has all 100% of the signs that he is one,, surely he can be impeached over this even in conservative run house and senate.

i think the united states owes the world that precaution to not let a mad man have access to nuclear weapons.

LisaRose

I find it incredible that such a shallow, deeply flawed person person was able to get elected. I loathe this man on a deep, visceral level, he is everything I despise. He lacks critical thinking skills and makes decisions based on emotions. He lies constantly and takes responsibility for nothing. The thought of such a thin skinned, self absorbed, dishonest and stupid narcissist having the nuclear codes scares me to death. It's like a horrible nightmare that just doesn't end.

I finally had to just disengage and not think about it much anymore. I am watching less news reports these days. I was a news junkie but everything I read just made me more depressed. Hopefully more rational people will keep him from doing too much harm, but in any case there is nothing much I can do about it, so there is little point in worrying about it.

What little I can do to stop this man I will do. My husband and I decided to start contributing a monthly amount to organizations that will hopefully be able to mitigate some of the damage we see coming. When and if Trump and Congress start implementing their ideas I will attend protests, depending on the issue.

Because Trump doesnt believe in climate change we are donating to the Sierra Club. The science for Global climate change is solid. The oceans are going to rise, but by how much will be determined by what we do now.

Because Trump is anti abortion and will do away with ACA, we will donnate to Planned Parenthood. It's just incredible to me that right wingers think a fertilized egg, with no consciousness, is so precious it must be saved at all costs, but are willing to let living, breathing people die due to lack of health care. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Because Trump hates the media and loves to spread lies and disinformation we are donating to Public Radio, and we also subscribe to the Washington Post. A free press is more important than ever. The Post has done many good articles on Trump, especially the one they did on Trumps charitable giving, or rather his lack of charitable giving, despite his bragging otherwise.

We are still considering several other organizations, but it's a start. Once taxes start getting cut we plan to increase our monthly allotment for charity .

46

Mom died, How and When I found out

by 3rdgen in

hi friends,.

it's been awhile since i've been talkative.

thought i'd give you an account of my latest family dysfunction.. a brief backstory is that i am an only child whose parents were born in jw's.

LisaRose

I am sorry you had such a horrible mother and that those people were so uncaring to have told you about it like that.

You can be at peace knowing that you did all you could and that your poo flinging mother is also finally at peace.Lisa🌹

84

Girls are unpredictable, materialist, and use us, men, as a toy - Part 2

by will-be-apostate in

well here am i, a couple of years passed since my original post (link here), somewhat less mysoginistic, more open to relationships, heartbroken again.

this is an official "fuck my life" thread.. being chased by the elders makes one arrive at the conclusion that there is nothing better than not being chased by the elders.

i had a pre-jc meeting a week ago.

LisaRose

Wow. You jump into bed with a woman you just met at a party and it doesn't end well, so that makes all women unpredictable and materialistic. Are you kidding?

If you don't want an unpredictable and materialistic woman, don't jump into bed with a woman you just met at a party. Predictable and non materialistic women don't hit up men they just met at a party.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

LisaRose

irst of all by definition a legal case can only be won or loss in a court case. I never said it was right. I present actual facts. Like court after Court judges have ruled that watchtower does not have a fiduciary duty to publishers, the duty to protect or warn. Everyone here can argue if those things are either correct or should be over turned but that doesn't negate that those are the facts atleast in the US. It is part of American law that a person doesn't have to protect a third party if they have no legal duty to do so. Again I in no way says that is right or wrong. But that is facts of the law

I agree that The Watchtower is not legally responsible in every case of child abuse. But these cases are not all as black and white as you seem to think. New legal arguments are made all the time, sometimes the courts agree and sometimes they do not, that is how it works. People said the Candace Conti case would never win, I didn't even think there much of chance, but although part of it was overturned (and rightly so in my opinion), part of it has not been overturned, at least not yet.

So why do you have a problem with people suing the Watchtower when they believe they have been wronged? They have the legal right, as does anyone to use the court system when they believe they have been wronged. As the saying goes "anyone can use anyone else over anything". If they don't have a case, it won't get anywhere, so where is the harm? The Watchtower has plenty of money, it isn't hurting them any, its the cost of doing business for them. Yes, people here do not like the Watchtower and we do know that many times they hide child abuse, so yeah we are going to side with innocent victims rather than an organization that has hurt us in so many ways. What else would you expect? The organization needs to change and they won't do so until they are forced to do so, anything that moves things along in that direction is to the good in my opinion.

The more important question is why you are more sympathetic to an organization with a history of covering up child sex abuse than to innocent victims.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

LisaRose

No one really knows how many cases are won or lost because often these kind of issues are settled out of court, in fact that is how the organization prefers it, so they can maintain the fiction that these things rarely happen in their "spiritual paradise". That is part of the problem, that they give their members a false sense of safety within the congregations, people are very trusting and congregation elders have a great deal of authority. These things make for a pedophiles paradise.

It's true that these cases are often not won, as I am sure is the cases in many cases of this kind, whether against the Catholic church or any other organization. The age of the victims, the fact that evidence is hard to come by and the nature of the crime make it so. That does not mean that a wrong wasn't done, it just means that the deck is stacked against the victim, a fact that the Watchtower is happy to exploit.

The Watchtower is not at fault every time a Jehovah's Witness commits such a crime, but very often these cases could have been prevented if the Watchtower would take proper precautions, and when they are at fault they should pay the price. A child who has had their innocence stolen because the Watchtower did not take common sense precautions has every right to sue. There are many things they could do to help make sure they aren't contributing to the problem:

Elders should be trained to recognize the signs of abuse, and how to talk to abuse victims.
Child victims should never, ever be forced to confront their abuser
The local authorities should be contacted in every case of suspected abuse, not just where it is a legal requirement. Elders are not qualified to judge whether abuse has actually taken place. Why does it take a law for the Watchtower to do the right thing?
A person who has sexually molested a child should never be put in any position of authority, elder or MS, ever.
Parents should be informed that their is always the possibility of child abusers in the organization, and that they should not automatically trust someone with their child just because they are a Jehovah's Witness.
A woman who is married to an abuser should not be pressured to stay in the marriage, the elders should help her protect her children.
A person with a history of child sex abuse should not be allowed to go in the ministry or conduct bible studies. If such a person becomes close to families with children the elders should take them aside and let them know of the problem.

These are just common sense precautions that would go a long way in preventing problems. That the Watchtower refuses to do them shows how little they care about innocent children and how greatly they care about their image.

I have seen first hand how the organization fails to protect children. My good friend had a son who was molested by a young Jehovah's Witness brother. He confessed and was reproved. Less that a year later he became engaged to a woman with young children. My friend was concerned because this woman was unaware of his history, so she informed her. My friend got in trouble with the elders and was told if she didn't shut up about the abuse she would be disfellowshipped. This kind of willful stupidity is inexcusable.

27

Here's a morbid thought...

by Rainbow_Troll in

it probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.

the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.

but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.

LisaRose

There are probably some who have followed the Watchtower's flawed logic and saw suicide as being a shortcut to the new system, but only if they were seriously disturbed to begin with. the problem is that suicide, per Watchtower teaching, is considered a serious sin and anyone deliberately engaging in such a serious sin might not be eligible to be resurrected.

30

Is it morally wrong to put Watchtower behind?

by Darkknight757 in

with our latest and final run in with the elders, the wife and i had a very long talk about what's next in our life.

do we try to help others see the light as it were concerning watchtower or do we just let it go and move on with our life?

we have made it perfectly clear that we will never go back to watchtower and we are finally happy.

LisaRose

It's not only not wrong to leave the Watchtower behind its probably the only realistic route open to you.You might think that it's possible to help others get out, but the reality is that in the vast majority of cases it's not possible. It's the nature of cults that people will not leave until they are ready no matter what information you share with them, so walk away in good conscience.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

LisaRose

I think we have all had to face this problem at one time or another. Every one's circumstances are different and there are downsides to whatever choice you make either way, so only you can decide what would be best but I have to say in your situation I would probably lean towards getting reinstated and then fading, if only because it would get your parents off your back while you finish school and get established in a career. When you are older they will probably be a bit more tolerant of you making your own decisions,vespecially of you are just fading.

30

New member

by NinaCee in

jw
friends

i did not see a newbs thread to introduce myself, so my apologies if i'm in the wrong place.

i was a 3rd generation born in witness for 30 years until i was disfellowshipped back in 2007 for making a mistake.

my entire life up until that point was based on and circled around the society, and even though at first i really enjoyed my freedom (i still do), the fact is that i'm still struggling with cognitive dissonance, resentment, and loneliness.. i miss my family all the time.

LisaRose

Welcome NinaCee, thanks for sharing your story.

Losing your entire extended family is going to be a blow no matter the reason, my heart goes out to you. Even though you know you could never stomach going back it's always going to hurt a bit being separate from your family. I hope you keep trying to make new friends though. The reality is that friends do come and go even without the complications of the religion, I have lost friends myself a few times do to job changes, moves, etc. Being an introvert and not working anymore it's hard to make new friends these days, so I can relate to what you are going through.