Granted, the hell fire doctrine is abhorrent, but to me there is a big difference between teaching that something bad will happen to you when you die and teaching that at any time (and soon) God is going to destroy the vast majority of the world's population. And salvation for churches happens based on belief in Jesus Christ, where the Watchtower teaches that you must be "whole souled", which means basically that you must do everything they say or you don't have a chance. It's just a whole different level of ugliness.
LisaRose
JoinedPosts by LisaRose
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30
Control - Whose worse, the JWs or the traditional churches?
by fulltimestudent inwe once experienced, the "you'll die at armegeddon," fear instilled into us as jw's.. was that worse or better than the fear of eternal torment instilled by more conventional religions?.
john spong gives his view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkah3hemv3m.
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23
Where do I start telling a psychologist about the mental trauma I feel as a fading jw?
by Simple Minds ini am on a pension, so i could not afford to pay for a psychologist, but my good doctor referred me to a free clinic for people on a low income, for my anxiety and depression, so i have finally got my first appointment with a psychologist since i started my fade, so where do i start trying to explain the mental trauma i feel as a fading jw?
i would appreciate your advice.
simple .
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LisaRose
It's important that you tell them that you were in a cult. Most psychologists don't know much about cults, and fewer know that the JWs are a cult. I recommend reading Combating Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan, as he gives a few tips on what to tell mental health professionals about your cult experience.
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Something isnt quite right.
by atomant inl was wondering if others get the feeling that the world we live in seems not quite right.l can not pin point anything specific but since childhood days l often get the feeling something isn;t correct.you know the feeling of deja vu.
am l the only one to feel this way?ld love to hear from others and any storys they may have.having been raised in the jdubs maybe lm just suffering mild bouts of paranoia .
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LisaRose
I think some people just have a natural tendency to be more sensitive to the evil that exists in the world, It can be hard sometimes not to become convinced that it's hopeless and of course some of us are just more naturally pessimistic. Religious groups like the JWs use that to manipulate you. When all seems bleak it can be tempting to believe that God is going to fix everything and all you have to do is to give up your autonomy and do everything they say. When you find out the Watchtower lied about so much it can be hard, because the comfort of believing there is a plan is suddenly taken away.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer, no quick fix and anyone saying otherwise is lying. But it doesn't mean it's hopeless, it just means you have to find a way to go on without the false sense of security provided by the religion. There is good in the world, and things are not as bad as you would think if all you do is read the news. There are no headlines that say "crime rates go down" or " not as many people went hungry last year".
We all make choices every day about what to focus on and what to do with our lives. You can choose to focus on the evil in the world while doing nothing about it, or you can choose to focus on the positive, while at the same time doing what you reasonably can to make the world a better place for you having been in it, it's entirely up to you.
The JWs tend to focus on the bad, because it validates their belief that everything is hopeless and that we need God to fix everything. Especially if you tend towards such negativity and black and white thinking in the first place , that habit can be hard to overcome. Constantly reading bad news is like a junk food diet for the mind, it's not healthy. But you can choose to focus on more positive things. Maybe you stop watching the news for a while, or at least cut back. Maybe instead you seek out things that have a more positive spin. It's important also to value friendships and family relationships, because those bonds will help you combat negativity.
Instead of thinking about how bad the world is, take some small step every day to make it less so. Do things fit in with your values, or that address concerns you have. I am concerned with the environment, so I try to do things that reflect that. I actually have a business turning reclaimed wood into vintage style signs, turning unwanted junk into something useful. I compost, turning my kitchen scraps and yard waste into garden amendments, reducing the need for fertilizer. I reduce, reuse and recycle whenever possible. I know that my actions are a drop in the bucket, that there has to be a massive shift in the world if we are to stop greenhouse gas from altering the climate, but I do what I can, which is as all any one can do.
I also have a tendency to focus on the negative. I have found that regular physical exercise is really important to keep a positive mood. For those of us with a tendency to internalize, to dwell on problems, physical exercise is a way to turn that focus around, out towards action, other people, towards the positive not the negative. Finally, I also highly recommend meditation, as it has been life changing for me. Meditation has proven health benefits, lowers blood pressure and improves mood.Your sense of doom could be your mind trying to deal with your fears and unresolved emotions. Meditation is a way to deal with those feelings and help you see a way forward.
Lisa 🌹
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24
Just handed in my Disassociation letter
by Thirteenth tribe intonight my dl was posted by hand by my husband (a worldly guy).
i had the luxury of being at work distracted whilst he posted it.
i have been baptised for just over 2 years and studied since 2010. i couldn't take it anymore, not just the zealous dislike/disgust for 'people in the world' (this includes my husband and 99% of my family btw) but the obvious.... the investigations into child sexual abuse.
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LisaRose
Congratulations on seeing through the lies, you dodged a bullet.
Welcome to the rest of your life.
Lisa 🌹
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18
Finding love as a witness
by RawrSaysTheLion inhi i'm new.. i'm going on 2yrs as a baptized witness although i've just received a reproval on the grounds of living with a wordly man unmarried for 6 months.
long story short it ended messy and i ran straight back to the witnesses because i do love jehovah and i missed my family.
my issues were only with the actual organization.. i desperately want to find someone to share my world with but i feel like i'm too tainted to be loved by anyone worthy in the truth and my morals are to high to love another boy from the world.
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LisaRose
You have painted yourself in a nice little corner haven't you?
You are making several incorrect assumptions and your black and white thinking is making you see very limited options.
I desperately want to find someone to share my world with but I feel like I'm too tainted to be loved by anyone worthy in the truth
That is ridiculous. Many, many Jehovah's Witnesses have been reproved or disfellowshipped and then gone on to find acceptable marriage mates. It might take time, but you could repair your reputation, if that's what you truly wanted to do. You are probably young and six months or a year seems like forever, but it's not.
and my morals are to high to love another boy from the world.
Well, no offence, but actually you have proven your morals aren't actually that high. It's not the end of the world, we all make mistakes, but why make an assumption that every boy "in the world" has low morals and that every JW guy has good morals? The reality is the JWs do not have a lock on morality. Many JWs do immoral things and just don't get caught and many people outside your religion have good morals, they just don't go on about it all the time.
If your Christian beliefs are important to you and you want to find a moral husband who shares your belief in Christ, then focus on that. The bible says you should marry a fellow believer, it doesn't say you have to marry a Jehovah's Witnesss, just a fellow believer in Christ. It's not actually Christian to judge a fellow Christian because their interpretation of the scriptures differs from yours. The early Christians had differing views, they were not ostracized for it. There are other good religions out there, and good people in them. You could probably still remain a JW if that is important to you, it's not a disfellowshipping offence to marry a non JW, you would just not be able to have pre marital sex.
If, on the other hand, you really want to live the JW life, and only see happiness with a JW husband, then you will probably have to compromise on some of your wishes. Maybe you find a guy who is good, but not good looking, or maybe you find a guy who also made mistakes in the past. At the end of the day you might also not find a mate, that is the reality, but you are a long way from knowing for sure you can't find a JW guy.
But before you do anything, I would urge you to investigate your own religion. The Watchtower is not what you think it is, so before you make painful choices that will limit your future, why not see if you are actually in the right religion in the first place?
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Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)
by done4good ini posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
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LisaRose
I believe we are hard wired by evolution to go by out "gut beliefs" rather than objective facts. It may have helped us survive when we had to decide to fight or run from that wolf stalking us, but doesn't serve is well in our increasingly complex society.
I read an actual comment posted bysomeone who thought the idea that the earth was round was just plain silly, because if that were true then tall buildings would be tilted. The earth looked flat to her and her gut feeling that it must actually be flat was not affected by the objective truth, proven by a mountain of evidence. This is an extreme example by a real dim bulb, but it's not far off from things many people believe.
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When is a theory 'just a theory'?
by HB inthe titles of cofty's excellent recent posts are all preceeded by the words "evolution is a fact...".
richard dawkins is encouraging people to use the term 'fact' in relation to evolution, especially when debating with creationists as the word 'theory' is confusing to many, and the latter often takes the discussion off on an often unproductive tangent.
the following may be of interest, it's from the bbc website - part of a regular series of articles called 'the vocabularist', discussing the origin and meaning of words: .
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21
Last Day of Chemo
by azor intoday is the end of my son's 3 -1/2 year treatment for leukemia.
we had a small party at the hospital with nursing staff and a few friends.
it has been a great day with the exception of getting walking pnemonia from his sister.
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LisaRose
That's great news, I am very happy for you.
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23
So I had a conversation with an older brother...
by My Name is of No Consequence inrecently, i was speaking with an older brother who is well into his 80's and is a widower.
he explained to me that it is tough getting old and that "nothing works right anymore".
he told me that he was able to get through his 70's with few problems.
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LisaRose
I think older people are just as aware of the failures of the Watchtower as others, if not more so. They were around in 1975, they know, at least on some level, that their predictions were just plain wrong, they expected to be in the new system 40 years ago. They don't leave because at that stage in life it's too hard to start over with no friends and/or family. The organization obviously doesn't care about them, as their is no support or effort extended to those who gave their life for the organization and now don't have anything left to give. I am glad I got out when I was young enough to start over. -
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My boyfriend is thinking of becoming reinstated
by gypsyvine ini'm not really sure where to post this.. i've been with my boyfriend for 4 months now and i've really never been happier.
i was brought up in the church of christ with an elder father and i really believe in my religion, although i will admit to being a lousy christian at times due to sheer laziness (not wanting to get out of bed on sunday).
my boyfriend essentially lives with me.
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LisaRose
It's possible that it could all work out, but it's not going to be easy.
The big question is, does he believe this religion is the truth or not? This is a cult, plain and simple, they use mind control to manipulate people, it's a hard thing to overcome. If he has researched this religion and doesn't believe it's "The Truth", and is only going back for his mom that would be one thing. But if he is just having a detour, engaging in conduct he believes to be wrong out of weakness, then the outlook for the future is not good for the both of you. Very often young JWs will have a rebellion, but later go back out of guilt, because they never understood how much they had been manipulated, and still think this is the one true religion. Of course he would never believe or accept that it is a cult, that is the nature of cults.
I would hate for you to invest a lot of time in a relationship only to be disappointed when he decides to marry a JW. Even if you got married, the JW life is to be quite involved in the preaching work, hours of meetings every week and lots of study. Are you prepared if he decides to embrace that life? What if you had children, are you OK with them going to the Kingdom Hall on a regular basis? How would you feel if your husband taught them that you will be destroyed at Armageddon because you were not a JW? This is what they actually believe. You have seen for yourself the awful practice of shunning, is that what you want in your life? I have seen hundreds of families torn apart by this, including my own, it's not pretty.
If I were you I would ask your boyfriend to do some research on the history of his religion. Most Jehovah's Witnesses have been taught to fear anything written by former members, we are considered "mentally diseased apostates". It's a sort of phobia, the fear makes them reject anything we say, that's why it's so hard to get them to mentally break free. But if he is willing to look into it you might have a chance. I suggest JWfacts.com as a start, or to read the book "crisis of conscience". If he refuses to consider "apostate" sites, then it's going to be harder, but you could suggest he research some of the main teachings from a neutral source. He could research early leaders like Charles Russel, or Rutherford on Wikipedia, do a search on sex abuse and Jehovah's Witnesses or the Australian Commission and Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, have him research one of the churches main teachings, which is the end times chronology based on the fall of Jerusalem in 607 (hint, it didn't actually fall in 607). If you are willing to do some research, I suggest "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steve Hassan. He has good info on how to help someone in someone in a cult to break free.
Good luck.
