LOL
Thanks for all the comments!
It's good to have "like-minded friends"
Happy New Year!
Randy
Dogpatch
JoinedPosts by Dogpatch
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13
How Mormons deal with "apostate literature"
by Dogpatch intips to keep your testimony from toppling.
by joni hilton
?the reason people fall out of the church is the same reason they fall out of bed: they?re not in properly!?
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13
How Mormons deal with "apostate literature"
by Dogpatch intips to keep your testimony from toppling.
by joni hilton
?the reason people fall out of the church is the same reason they fall out of bed: they?re not in properly!?
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Dogpatch
Tips to Keep Your Testimony from Toppling By Joni Hilton
?The reason people fall out of the church is the same reason they fall out of bed: They?re not in properly!? See what other readers have to say about anti-Mormon literature, and how you can keep a testimony from toppling.
I started this week?s column with a quote from the late Alex Burton, in whose ward I served as Relief Society president. I?ll never forget his charming New Zealand accent, as he announced the above in a testimony meeting. And I?ve found it true again and again.
Many of you wrote with some other excellent wisdom on this topic:
Yes, I'm a man so I guess I'm not in your "circle of sisters", but your subject interested me.
For years I couldn't fathom how someone could leave the Church, but I've come to the conclusion that they leave in much the same way that they come into it.
In order to have the Spirit give someone a testimony, they must first plant a seed of faith. They then nurture that seed with thoughts and actions that will help that faith mature.
The same is true of those who leave. They first plant a seed of doubt. They continue to nurture this seed, the Spirit of the Lord departs, they "rationalize" behavior that they would have never considered previously and before they know it they are out of the Church. Interestingly, even though they sometimes leave, they can't seem to leave it alone. I have also found that many if not most who leave the Church also lose their belief in Christ and God or any Supreme Being.
Almost always follows the argument that "those who believe" simply don't know how to "think rationally". Nothing could be further from the truth. When one has the Spirit of the Lord and can view things as they really are, that's when rationality is at its best!
A member of the Fifth Quorum of the Seventy, Elder Harvey Gardner, once told me that he considered anti-Mormon literature as "pornography" because it damages your spirit. I agree. Why would anyone plant weed seeds in a beautiful garden? That certainly is the effect of anti-Mormon literature on a testimony of Our Savior and the restoration of the gospel in these latter days.
When one has left the Church it can be very difficult to bring them back. Without the Holy Spirit to guide them, they truly can't think with rationality and many times they are simply left to kick against the pricks. Oliver Cowdrey is a good example. It took him years to come to his senses and return to the fold even though he once had held all of the priesthood keys jointly with the Prophet Joseph.
The sure and certain way for one to come back is to plant wholesome seeds of faith and remove the seeds of doubt that have been nurtured and grown. Faith, hope and God's enduring love is the only solution that I have seen that is successful.
My two cents for what it is worth.
Darwin N. Davis Phoenix, Arizona
Your thoughts are worth much more than two cents, and are so true: Satan wins by increments. What seeds are we nurturing? And, by the way, we love hearing from our ?circle of brothers,? too.
This reader agrees that anti-Mormon literature is ?spiritual pornography?:
First of all, anti-Mormon literature, Internet sites, conversations, ideas, etc. are like spiritual pornography. Once they are in the mind, they are very difficult to get rid of. As you try to reach out to your husband, I would advise you to avoid any material, even if you think it might help you understand him better. You don't want those seeds of doubt planted in your own mind, because no one is immune to them.
Secondly, be aware that not all anti-Mormon "stuff" out there comes from non- or ex-Mormons. My friend has found material that is written in a spirit of so-called "enlightenment" on Church history or other topics by church members -- but at the core, it is anti-Mormon and anything but enlightening or faith-promoting. There are some wolves in sheep's clothing out there, right in our midst. And you can detect them -- because they stray from foundational principles.
Which brings me to my third point: most anti-Mormon material strikes at the foundation of our faith -- particularly focusing on Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. So, with that in mind, first do all you can to keep your testimony bright and burning, especially regarding these two points: Joseph Smith was a prophet and the Book of Mormon is true. If you can find ways to read and re-read the Book of Mormon with your husband, to read Joseph Smith's words and testimony, and to pray about these things, that might help. If it's possible to do a church-history kind of trip to somewhere like Palmyra, Nauvoo or Independence, that couldn't hurt (these are places where my own testimony was strengthened immensely, hence this recommendation).
I think of the formula in Alma 32. Perhaps you can work through that formula with your husband. Does he WANT to believe? If so, that's where he can begin now. He can work with the seed of desire first, and care for that seed through prayerful study and consistent actions that can help the seed grow (continuing to go to church, fulfill callings, etc., even if, right now, he isn't 100% sure it's true). "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine..." (John 7:17). The more I study, the more I serve, the more I immerse myself in the Church and gospel, the more true it all becomes!
Seek the Lord's guidance and try to have as many shared experiences with the Spirit as possible. Try to encourage him to do that alone as well. The only way to overcome the effects of "spiritual pornography" is to fill one's mind, heart and soul with things of the Spirit...and, then, to walk by faith.
"If you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things. Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?" (Doctrine and Covenants 6:22-23)
If your husband has had moments like that, try to help him remember them, to recall the witnesses that he has received. And seek for ways to encourage him (and help him, if you can) have more such moments -- "experiences with the Spirit." The Holy Ghost really is the key to this challenge. He is the testifier of truth. No man, not even the best church scholars, can overcome the effects of these doubts completely. (After all, for every wonderful church scholar, there is a crafty intellectual out there who will claim to debunk any scholar's claim!) We all need to remember to turn to the Source of truth, even God, who speaks through the Spirit. That is the pattern He has designed for us. May He bless you and your sweetheart!
With love, A sister in Utah
more letters re: this topic are in the full article at:
http://www.ldsmag.com/circleofsisters/031229testimonyprint.html
Randy
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"True Christians" Avoid Diplomacy
by minimus inthe 1-8-04 awake has an article entitled: will diplomacy bring world peace?----here's what it says in part:"would you like to see an end to all wars?
surely there must be some diplomatic solution to national and international conflicts......should christians involve themselves in diplomacy?......hence, true christians avoid involvement in this world's conflicts and its attemtrs at diplomacy......bible prophecy and past experience clearly indicate that trusting in human diplomacy to bring peace can only lead to disappointment.
those who rest their hope for peace on jesus christ and support god's kingdom will see their desire for true peace realized.
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Dogpatch
Is the Watchtower becoming increasingly involved in government and political activities? You be the judge!
from http://www.randytv.com/wtandpolitics.htm
The Watchtower plans to build towers on its DUMBO property. Why? (12/18/03)
Has the Watchtower eliminated the role of the United Nations in prophecy?
Watchtower secretly joins United Nations as an NGO and disassociates when exposed as hypocrites
Watchtower owns 50% stock in Randcam Technologies
Review article re: SWARM and RandCam tech in Iraq, etc.
Online discussion of Watchtower and RandCam implications
Rand Cam Engine Technology Corp. information
Stockbrokers Report on RandCam (2/19/2003)
RandCam engine in Iraq war (6/1/03)
Watchtower listed as a Memorial Day organizer with the Armenian National Committee
Watchtower listed as an NGO with the Vilnius International Forum
James Pellechia of Brooklyn Bethel making major efforts towards "tolerance" of JWs in the college community
(scroll down to very bottom of page)Listen to one man's journey into finding out what the Watchtower is doing accepting funds for the Bush administration.
MP3 FORMAT (7.5 meg. download) REAL Audio (streaming, 4.6 meg.)Contributions to the United Way may end up in the Watchtower's coffers! 10/28/03
They do EVERYTHING THEY CAN in their own little diplomatic world, and in ours, too!
Randy
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DUMBO property and the secret of the Margaret Hotel
by Dogpatch ini just received this letter from a former bethel worker who saw my post on the dumbo property plans of the watchtower.
don't tell me they aren't doing this dumbo project just the same as the margaret hotel and who knows how many others?
letter dated 12/18/03 from anonymous .
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Dogpatch
Thanks Franklin,
I think the letter I just received from the anonymous Bethelite gives it away, they want to build Luxury apartments that can be converted to Bethel rooms easily. Why? So the reverse can be accomplished after a couple of years and sell the buildings as luxury apartments!
I don't imagine what other reason they are doing this. Do you?
Two links that are important:
http://www.freeminds.org/DUMBOletter.htm
http://www.freeminds.org/history/margarethotel.htm
Randy
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DUMBO area in Brooklyn says "No!" to watchtower development
by Dogpatch inread the whole article at: http://www.nypost.com/business/13351.htm.
december 14, 2003 -- another real estate turf war is cooking in brooklyn.
this one squares off dumbo dwellers against jehovah's witnesses, whose plans to build a massive housing complex has the trendy neighborhood residents from down under the manhattan bridge overpass fuming.
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Dogpatch
Two links that are important:
http://www.freeminds.org/DUMBOletter.htm
http://www.freeminds.org/history/margarethotel.htm
Randy
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My letter to officals re: the DUMBO property of the WT
by Dogpatch inthis is the letter i'm emailing to several key persons as requested at:http://85jaystreet.org/cando/.
randy.
free minds, inc..
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Dogpatch
Two links that are important:
http://www.freeminds.org/DUMBOletter.htm
http://www.freeminds.org/history/margarethotel.htm
Randy
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DUMBO property and the secret of the Margaret Hotel
by Dogpatch ini just received this letter from a former bethel worker who saw my post on the dumbo property plans of the watchtower.
don't tell me they aren't doing this dumbo project just the same as the margaret hotel and who knows how many others?
letter dated 12/18/03 from anonymous .
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Dogpatch
I just received this letter from a former Bethel worker who saw my post on the DUMBO property plans of the Watchtower. Don't tell me they aren't doing this DUMBO project just the same as the Margaret Hotel and who knows how many others?
LETTER DATED 12/18/03 from ANONYMOUS
re: The Secrets behind the Margaret Hotel purchase by the WatchtowerDear Randy:
It has been a couple of years since we exchanged correspondence and today, after reading your letter on the Watch Tower DUMBO area project, memories of my year at Bethel came back to haunt me.
It turns out that I was invited in the spring of 1986 to work at Brooklyn Bethel, specifically to help in the engineering department. I had already worked with some of these brothers for two weeks at the end of 1985 and Ray Rose, in particular, liked my work and arranged for the invitation. In those days the Watch Tower was using a real estate company called COHI Associates for the express purpose of buying properties in the Heights area. To my knowledge, they purchased the Standish and Bossert buildings this way. Officially, I came to Bethel as an employee of this company and was given an apartment in the Standish building.
I was brought in because the demands on the engineering group with the Patterson project going full steam, the refurbishing of the COHI properties was being neglected. These old buildings needed to be brought to Bethel standards for the eventual turn over.
A few of months after arriving in Brooklyn when the plans for the remodeling of the old Bossert Hotel were finished, I was invited to be a part of a secret project. This project had to do with designing a new residence building in the lot where there had existed the old Margaret Hotel on Columbia Heights. The building had been consumed in a fire and now the Society entered secret negotiations with the proprietor to buy the building.
As you know, the community has serious concerns about the ever-expanding Witness headquarters and was the subject of negative articles in the local press on numerous occasions.
Our job in engineering was to prepare design plans for a luxury apartment building that could be easily converted to Bethel rooms by simple modifications. During that period, the department was closed to the public and we would not be allowed to discuss the project with anybody, including our spouses. The plans were prepared under the name of a local engineer who was a witness. We, in engineering, came to cal the project ?Madame X.?
After a few months, the plans and permits were obtained and construction began. A ?worldly? construction firm laid the foundation and steel framework was being erected. On the property, a sign showing a rendering of the completed structure featured the telephone number of a real estate company in charge of sales. A person in the engineering department, as explained to me, answered the telephone.
One fine morning, after the steel frame was completed, it was announced to the Bethel family that the Society had ?just acquired? the building under construction. I felt bad, terribly bad because I knew better.
I left Bethel in the spring of 1987 at the end of the one year agreement because my wife?s poor heath. But my experience in Brooklyn was the catalyst for the crisis of conscience that peaked ten years later.
I join you and the community, even if just in prayer, in your efforts to stop the Watch Tower availing themselves of the ?world? to further their own interests at the expense of others.
May God bless you always.
In Christ
AnonymousBelow are the ?sanitized? references by the WTBTS of the events described above.
*** w96 4/15 26-7 Expansion With Jehovah's Blessing *** The speaker also described how Jehovah?s Witnesses purchased the former site of the famous Margaret Hotel, just across the street from the original Bethel Home. The location is ideal, since it could easily be tied in with the Bethel complex by an under-the-street tunnel. In February 1980, when the building was in the course of being remodeled, it burned down. Then, because the owner had trouble putting up a new building on the site, he sold the property to Jehovah?s Witnesses.
*** yb88 25-4 1988 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses *** Additional property for housing the Brooklyn Bethel family was acquired in February 1987. The 11-story structure is located at 97 Columbia Heights and will have 127 rooms, with underground parking space for 30 cars. A hired contractor completed the shell of the building, and the Society?s personnel will finish the interior construction by approximately September 1988.
[Picture on page 24]
*** g89 4/22 23-4 More Living Space for a Growing Family *** 97 Columbia Heights One is this beautiful new 11-story building overlooking the East River, located on the site of the former Hotel Margaret. It has an unobstructed view of one of the most photographed sights of all time, the skyscrapers of Lower Manhattan and its famous financial district. More importantly, it is located next to 107 and 124 Columbia Heights, large residences that accommodate over a thousand members of the Bethel family.
Just a hundred years ago, the 150-foot-high [50 m] Hotel Margaret was completed at 97 Columbia Heights and became internationally known. In February 1980, while the Margaret was in the process of being converted into luxury apartments, it was devastated by fire and was afterward torn down. In 1986, after the developer finally received permission to go ahead with the new construction, he sold the property to the Watchtower Society, a legal agency of Jehovah?s Witnesses. As successive floors of the building were readied for occupancy during 1988, a total of 250 members of the Bethel family moved in.
A spokesman for the firm that designed the building said that an attempt was made ?to keep some memory of the Margaret alive.? The way the windows are done, for example, is reminiscent of the copper metalwork on the Margaret. The spokesman added: ?We tried to keep the building larger in scale toward the water and smaller in scale toward the community.? Thus, the building is stepped down to the level of buildings nearby.
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Michael Jackson become muslim?
by hungarian xjw inon hungarian page i read this
http://index.hu/kultur/showbiz/mjiszlam1218/?print
don"t find english sources
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Anyone seen Return of the King yet??
by Gretchen956 ini am chomping at the bit to go to see rotk!!
you won't be giving anything away, because i believe i have read the series upwards of 20 or more times over the years, but how was it?
thoughts?.
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Dogpatch
I saw it last night in a large Stadium theatre, it was better than the first two parts for sure, though I enjoyed them all. This one is a MUST SEE. The ending was a little cheesy but not unexpected, but that's the storybook style. :-))
Randy
Net Soup!
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Angharad passed her exam too !
by Simon in.
she's just looked up her results online and found out she passed her latest open university exam.. well done love, i knew you'd do it !
again, another box to tick on the immigration forms to get a few more points ...
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Dogpatch
Excellent Angharad!
Randy