Loosened's turn:
How all beginnings have a cause.
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.
28 The children of your servants will live in your presence;
their descendants will be established before you."
A little baby can throw paint on a canvass. But look at a master's painting, and then you know without a doubt there was something special behind that work of art. Look at the more amazing earth with an array of wonderful things. Sunsets that make you shake your head. Food that is wonderful to smell and taste. Beautiful turquoise waters and a white sandy beach with coconut trees are an exquisite sight for me living in Hawaii. Mountains and valley and waterfalls and beautiful forests and flowers on and on... they reflect the hand of an amazing Supreme Artist. At least for me they do as well as 90 percent of the human population.
All the universe is in amazing order. The human body is simply incredible. Cut youself and it can heal itself. Just get the food and enjoy eating it, the body does the rest for you by breaking it down and using it for living. Want kids? You know what to do. But then amazing things happen to make that little one into a human being. We love other people. We have a conscience. We all have some built in desire to search for and worship something. We speculate and contemplate many things many times.
You say, it all happened to come together through some series of FAT CHANCES. Lot's of luck and accidents made all things just come together from nothing by nobody. (heh... I always laugh when atheists teach this...
What kills all of the atheists arguments, is that scientific, intelligent forces cannot make ANY LIFE AT ALL out of dead matter.
Posts by Vinny
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Vinny
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Vinny
Hilary, the self-titled "GREAT DISMANTLER" is now up.
****** The bible says that the Creator of all things never had a beginning. Scientists say that TIME began when the universe began. Therefore the Creator would have also been the creator of TIME along with the universe itself. He would be before time, outside of the very dimension that He created. He would not be subject to time, as is all things today. The most obvious aspect being a beginning. Everything that we see and know of had a beginning. The one exception would be the very one that created time itself, who is also said through the holy scriptures to have never had a beginning. No special pleading at all here in this very circumstance. Throw out the bible, yet science still teaches that time is accepted to have began when the universe began. Whoever made the universe then would also have made time.
Here, I will help you so you can't be too confused:
1- Hilary, how does life evolve from lifeless matter? Please tell us.
2- Hilary, how does it feel believing that red corvette simply could arrive all on its own since universe, life and earth (all far more complex) all arrived on their own with no intelligence involved?
3- Hilary, if its true that all these things just happened on their own, why cannot the same science and technology which sends folks to the moon, create ANY LIFE (even the simplest of living things) from non-living matter today?
4- Hilary, what about the universal fact of life PRINCIPLE that EVERY BEGINNING MUST HAVE A CAUSE CAUSE? What does THAT do for atheism?
5- Hilary, what does it say to you when people such as Einstein, Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of others scientists, philosophers, leaders such as Ghandi, MLK, every single President elected and many other successful people as well as BILLIONS of others believe in a Supreme Intelligent Designer and REJECT ATHEISM OUTRIGHT.
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Vinny
TROUNCE TIME FOR ALAN F (PART 2):
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Vinny
Alan f is up.
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Vinny
Next up Trevor!
Folks, Trevor was nice as well. See Vinny can be nice twice in a row. Today is "be nice day", I guess. But when atheists get ugly, swear etc. that's when I have to get out the paddle and do the smackdown thing.
But not this time. Good for you Trevor.
The problem is, alan f was not very nice in his reply. Alan f is not very nice in ANY of his replies from what I have read. He likes to use the B.S. word quite a bit.
I'll be back to take care of alan and his B.S. words when I feel like it. But it probably won't be very long. For some reason, I like replying to alan f. So much so that last time he moved up to the FRONT OF THE LINE. -
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Vinny
Just a short time today for atheist SPANKS. For those of you that wonder why I have not addressed you specifically (and I keep seeing this), you need to try READING what is actually written. I am addressing people in the ORDER with which they commented. Currently I am at the end of page 12, getting ready to start the replies on page 13. If I have missed anybody, out of order, then send me a PM. I will quickly put you at the front of the line. After all, ALL ATHEISTS DESERVE TO BE SPANKED IN THE ORDER THEY POSTED.
: )
Almost Atheist said today:...."Hey Vinny, You can skip my spanking. We've both got better things to do. You're obviously a decent guy, and devout. That's cool. You're not going to convince anyone that isn't already convinced, and it's clear nothing I say will affect you. On this topic, at least. So let's just agree to disagree, 'k? When at last we meet, beers are on me. Dave"
Atheism:noun the theory or belief that God does not exist.
Einstein DID NOT believe in Atheism. Atheism is the belief that God does not exist.
I do agree with Almost Atheist that Einstein is just one man's opinion, and so what? He was wrong about other things throughout his life. Still, his "God does not play dice with the universe", sums up what I personally believe as well as many others today. It simply corroborated my own thoughts and comes from a very well-respected expert in that particular field of study.
For his entire life, as he delved into the mysteries of the cosmos, Albert Einstein harbored a belief in, and reverence for, the harmony and beauty of what he called the mind of God as it was expressed in the creation of the universe and its laws. Around the time he turned 50, he began to articulate more clearly—in various essays, interviews, and letters—his deepening appreciation of his belief in God, although a rather impersonal version of one.
One particular evening in 1929, the year he turned 50, captures Einstein’s middle-age deistic faith. He and his wife were at a dinner party in Berlin when a guest expressed a belief in astrology. Einstein ridiculed the notion as pure superstition. Another guest stepped in and similarly disparaged religion. Belief in God, he insisted, was likewise a superstition.
At this point the host tried to silence him by invoking the fact that even Einstein harbored religious beliefs.
“It isn’t possible!” the skeptical guest said, turning to Einstein to ask if he was, in fact, religious.
“Yes, you can call it that,” Einstein replied calmly. “Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious.”
Shortly after his fiftieth birthday, Einstein also gave a remarkable interview in which he was more revealing than he had ever been about his religious sensibility. It was with a pompous but ingratiating poet and propagandist named George Sylvester Viereck, who had been born in Germany, moved to America as a child, and then spent his life writing gaudily erotic poetry, interviewing great men, and expressing his complex love for his fatherland. For reasons not quite clear, Einstein assumed Viereck was Jewish. In fact, Viereck proudly traced his lineage to the family of the Kaiser, and he would later become a Nazi sympathizer who was jailed in America during World War II for being a German propagandist.
Viereck began by asking Einstein whether he considered himself a German or a Jew. “It’s possible to be both,” replied Einstein. “Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind.”
Should Jews try to assimilate? “We Jews have been too eager to sacrifice our idiosyncrasies in order to conform.”
To what extent are you influenced by Christianity? “As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.”
You accept the historical existence of Jesus? “Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
Do you believe in God? “I’m not an atheist. I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”
Is this a Jewish concept of God? “I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew.”
Is this Spinoza’s God? “I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but I admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.”
Do you believe in immortality? “No. And one life is enough for me.”
Einstein tried to express these feelings clearly, both for himself and all of those who wanted a simple answer from him about his faith. So in the summer of 1930, amid his sailing and ruminations in Caputh, he composed a credo, “What I Believe,” that he recorded for a human rights group and later published. It concluded with an explanation of what he meant when he called himself religious: “The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man.”
People found the piece evocative, even inspiring, and it was reprinted repeatedly in a variety of translations. But not surprisingly, it did not satisfy those who wanted a simple, direct answer to the question of whether or not he believed in God. For some, only a clear belief in a personal God who controls daily life qualified as a genuine faith. “The outcome of this doubt and befogged speculation about time and space is a cloak beneath which hides the ghastly apparition of atheism,” Boston’s Cardinal William Henry O’Connell said. This public blast from a Cardinal prompted the noted Orthodox Jewish leader in New York, Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, to send a very direct telegram: “Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid. 50 words.” Einstein used only about half his allotted number of words. It became the most famous version of an answer he gave often: “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”
It may not have satisfied everyone. But it satisfied many. For like Einstein there are many of us who share an awed intimation of a God, manifest in all that exists, a sense that remains mysterious but real.
Walter Isaacson, the CEO of the Aspen Institute, has been chairman of CNN and the managing editor of Time magazine. His new book, "Einstein: His Life and Universe," was published last month. -
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Vinny
When people reply like dead poet just did, I can be very nice too.
It does not matter to me if my own brother was an atheist, I would not treat him any differently. On a debate board, things can get a little fiery though.
After the debate, like I told AA, we can have a cold one and laugh it off.
PM me if she's interested in a Hawaiian Print. I am a landscape photographer in Hawaii and sell my work internationally.
I will promise not to sign Vinny the theist....
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Vinny
I forgot one thing for alan f:
If God asked me to do something that I thought was wrong, would I do it anyway? That was a part of your question I missed.
My answer is YES.
He was called faithful by God Himself for putting his trust in God completely.
I would like to hope I would be like Abraham.
Now Alan F, from now on, let's stick to the subject of ATHEISTS AND HOW ALL THINGS COME FROM NOTHING, BY NOBODY.
Okay?
You are still in line by the way. -
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Vinny
Don't worry dead poet, I think you are in line a few times. I will get to you in detail when your turn comes every time.
I will try to be nicer to you, since you complain alot about vinny not being nice enough.
On a more serious note:
I also am aware of your difficult situation and seriously do not want to add any more stress to you or your situation. I will ask you before how you feel about a reply to your posts. I am human and do have true empathy for your situation.
I hope things are all looking up and better for you both.
Yes, I am serious.
I may be hard on atheists, but there are times when I put all that away too.
Be well.
My best to you and Linda,
vinny
PS- PM me and I will send you both a framed Hawaiian Print on me. -
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Vinny
I am so sorry for you other folks standing in line for vinny, waiting to get your SPANKS over with. (I think Almost Atheist is next in line), but alan f wants one of his spanks FIRST.
A continuous stream of "FAT CHANCES" that all just fell right into place so that all of this LIFE could then arise from those soup-like, dead matter conditions where a polymer can turn into the human brain and beyond.
And with a STRAIGHT FACE, tell me that his earth is just another one of those freak accidents that just happens to be at the precise distance from the sun, orbiting at just the right speed of 66,000 miles per hour, rotating at just the correct speed to sustain life (24 hours), with just the right amount of tilt for refreshing seasonal changes and filled with so many perfectly balanced, harmonized ecological systems that are also the result of MANY more of these needed mere "accidents".
All things, from nothing, buy a lot of accidents and luck.
Every beginning has a cause. The features surrounding us have very specific purposes. It just makes the most sense for most people today, yesterday and probably forever to believe in Creationism.
The problem was that hilary struck out even worse than you did. He could not dismantle a puzzle, if his reply is any indication.
I buried Hilary badly. But hilary had no answers.
But I will see you and hilary again when your turn comes up.