Sorry do disappoint Odrade, but I did not twist what he said at all, anywhere. I quoted word for word and then offered my opinions on what he wrote, as did another poster feeling similarly. I have nothing against oldflame since I have never even heard of him until reading this thread earlier today. As I started reading it, I felt very uneasy about how he reacted. He then laughed at how scared they were. He also started with the tenants loved what he did kind of self congratulatory remarks. I made a simple comment agreeing with Quandry's point of view and adding a few comments of my own. So what?
Concerned then challenges my point of view and then YOU come in claiming both Quandry and myself are being "hysterical" in our replies. This is nonsense. We have as much a right to have an opinion about this thread as you, Concerned or anybody else does. We have a right to offer those opinions on this thread as you, Concerned or anybody else as well. Disagree with those opinions if you wish. But that's as far as you can go. You can say I am twisting the facts. You can say I am trying to make oldflame look like an a-hole, You can say that I am being hysterical and other unsupported ridiculous claims. None of this is true and all you have are silly, unsubstantiated insults in the end. Insults that do not penetrate since I have a very thick skin and realize you are simply defending a friend. I do not know, nor have ever heard of Quandry either until this morning. But I tend to agree with her point of view. If anything, not knowing oldflame at all, having no hidden agenda here (as you claim), my opinions should have some merit then. I personally viewed his comments in a more critical light than either of you two. He came across as very insensitive in my opinion and seemed to laugh at their reaction and his subsequent popularity with the other tenants. For all we know those JW ladies had no idea they were not supposed to be there. Threatening to have them arrested was unnecessary. Laughing at their reaction and fear was cold, heartless in my mind. These are still people. Many are just victims themselves. They are not whores, dope pushers or Jack Asses as one poster has the audacity to write. People like that are what give EX JW's a very bad rap.
So in the end I respect your right to think oldflame was just sharing a humorous story with the board. In my view, it was more than that. It was a little more cruel, ugly and unappealing from my perspective. So then we can agree to disagree. If I see another post that presents a similar negative response, I'll be sure to make that known as well. You folks I would assume have good intentions; but you are not the final authority by any means. What I said, I still believe. Could I be persuaded to believe differently? Possibly so. But it would be by hearing oldflame, and very unlikely from you or Concerned. I have heard your arguments and have not been persuaded by them at all. He too has already commented and not helped his cause either in changing my opinion. But so what? Even if he did mishandle this situation in my opinion, it's just that, only my OPINION. And we can all have bad moments. Oldflame is entitled to those as well.
All the best, Vinny
Posts by Vinny
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75I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
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75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
Sorry Odrade, but you have humorously watered down this entire story now. This is just too easy. Let's see what you have to say:
Odrades watered down version: "Due to the actionable nature of violating trespassing laws, this comment "Next time I'll call the police," caused them fear. Why? Because they knew they were breaking the law. They also knew that this particular violation of law is an offense for which they could be arrested. He was simply stating what would happen next time. In fact, Old Flame was being kind, due to the fact that they knew it was trespassing, and he gave them another pass by saying "next time..."
Oldflames OWN VERSION (printed above for all to see): "but I think I scared the living hell out of those two women. LOL I'm not a bad guy either but I sure felt bad when I scared them. (GOOD BAD).... My tenants *LOVE ME* for the fact I chase them off. LOL But I told them next time I was just going to call the police and have them arrested"....
"I am here to tell you that I have damn good reason for my anger" ..."Allow me to say this one more time to those who think I am a rude prick"..."I am not a rude prick to anyone unless they really deserve it and if anyone has been rude here it is you for your assumptions and accusations against me."
*** He scared the hell out of them (in his own words), he's laughing out loud about it (LOL), and then sarcastically says that he felt bad... (GOOD BAD!). He tenants love him cause he "CHASES" them off. And next time will "have them arrested". Odrade, this is one big swing and a miss my dear! You are stretching like gumby here to make what oldflame said look better that it is. Because what it really is, is embarrassing to read. : )
Additionally, he cannot just "have them arrested" as you claim. The police may arrive and then ask the JW's to leave. But they will not be locked up and taken away. Silly you.
Oldflame came here patting himself on the back. Enjoying the fear he put into those JW women (whom have been misled much like you and I were once before). He mentions how his tenants just love him for his running them off and threats to have them arrested. You can believe your watered down version if you wish. But as for me, I will use oldflame's OWN posted words.
*** Yep, that pretty well sums it up as I see it. Thanks for putting it together all in one easy to read place!
It sounds like Johnny cip needs to lay off the caffeine or crack or whatever he's doing. You sure seem to have a gutter-mouthy gift. Just rolls off the tongue so effortlessly. Bet your mamma's proud of YOU too! The apple of her eye... -
75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
Odrade says:.."So I take it you're going with the WT tactic of "If I misrepresent this enough times, someone will accept it as true"? "
****Perhaps rather than just blanketly accuse me of misrepresenting the facts, you can SHOW me exactly what was misrepresented. I realize that calls for more than just a sentence or two on your part Odrade. Think you're up to the task?
I posted exactly what was written and commented on those statements specifically. That's what's so nice about the net; it's all in print. Can't really dispute that now can you? What oldflame said is in print and easy to understand what he meant. So what part of this concept do you not get?
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75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
Odrade says:.. "Maybe "some have a problem with this" because "some" are new here, refuse to take into account any further clarification, don't know the character of the man and are making huge ASSumptions."
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75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
Confession says:..."So you admit he did nothing wrong".
Confession says:..."Well I don't like the way you come across on this board--all 'macho and bad-ass-like."
*** Well, if you think that I am perhaps being "all 'macho and bad-ass-like."now you can see why some have problems with oldflame's bad ass, self-stroking approach then. And for the record, I am not getting any thrills frightening JW ladies, patting myself on the back telling all here how others just LOVE ME.
Confessions says:.."JWs have come into his complex before. He's told them not to return. They keep coming back. He "calmly" and "politely" tells them they're not allowed to knock on doors there. They get scared. While he never intended to scare them, he gets a kick at the way they appeared scared. You don't think he should feel this way, so you come in here, accusing him of all sorts of stuff you have NO knowledge of." -
75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
I have no problems with oldflame asking JW's to stay away from his complex. This is quite reasonable as we all know.
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75
I ran them off !
by oldflame inthe witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women.
i walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no jehovah's witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.
i have a tenant who is a jw and this is fine with me and they are aloud to come and visit her but i do not allow them to bother my tenants as they all prefer they stay away anyways.
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Vinny
I agree with Quandry here; this was like some kind of power trip for you. At least this is the impression I get. This quote from you here says it all:
..."I think I scared the living hell out of those two women. LOL I'm not a bad guy either but I sure felt bad when I scared them. (GOOD BAD)"
You then come here patting yourself on the back. Tough guy here oldflame, "scaring the hell out of those two women".
Sure, real tough!
I'm not impressed. -
36
I got the phone call. WARNING, DEPRESSING!
by Schism inwell,my dad called last night, crying.
he says armageddon's about to start and he doesn't want to lose me.
he said i either need to become a good jw and go to the meetings, or he will have to distance himself from me so that he won't be so attached to me when the big a hits.
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Vinny
Your father was ME just over one year ago. All of my kids were raised in the organization. I was an elder and very zealous the entire time. However, three years ago my one son was DF'd at 16 and never wanted to come back. EVERYTHING that I did afterwards was to try to bring him around. No exaggerations. He still lived at home for a couple of years. I really believed he would die. I loved him so much (and still do), that it was imperative to get him to think about it, talk about it and get him back on track as a JW. I lost sleep over this fear as well; was consumed with what I couuld do to save him. Sound like your father?
Just one year ago, I learned about organ transplant, vaccination, alternative service prohibitions which were eventually made conscience matters. That knowledge made me look into the one issue I had always had a tough time with; Blood transfusions. This past Feb I turned in my letter of disassociation to EVERBODY"S shock... including my son. My exact letter can be read here:
http://p196.ezboard.com/Letter-of-disassociation/fexjehovahswitnessforumfrm14.showMessage?topicID=237.topic
Anyway, the fact is your father is being a very loving, caring father as was I. He obviously loves you very much. No, he is not mentally ill either. He has simply been deceived, that is all. He has bought into the JW bag of tricks, just as I did for 20 years, as well as most people on this board. It's a very powerful system they have developed over the years. Claim they are the one true faith on earth. ALL others to be destroyed. Hear the very same message every single week during five meetings, family study, field service, daily text etc.etc. Discipline or remove those that oppose or even question current JW teachings. Claim that their OWN salavation is in jeaopardy if not fully supporting all JW teachings. Call all those "critical" of the org APOSTATE. Warn JW's to stay off the internet (where they can learn the real truth). Shun those that voluntarily leave due to knowing the REAL TRUTH about the JW history. Threaten to shun those that DO speak with those already out that just happen to know these things. Again, it's a very effective system to keep all JW's in line, in the dark and doing exactly what they are told.
The only advice I can offer you is to simply get INTO these issues with your father, point by point. Otherwise unless you stop speaking with him it will never end... ever. He should be willing to do this even though it's dangerous for him to do so. Tell him ahead of time, if he can deal with these issues specifically and directly in a satisfactory manner, that you would consider coming back to the faith. If it's the TRUTH, then he should have nothing to fear in terms of issues on your mind. Before officially turning in that letter posted above, I asked 30 different peoplen to try to answer these specific issues that were in that letter. I spoke to so many people along the way that I though my head would explode. Seriously, I was drained from so much heavy discussion with so many people that I actually was happy to finally end it all with by turning it in. The bottom line though, was that not one single Elder, Pioneer, Ministerial Servant, friend, family or anybody else could deal with ANY of those issues. Seriously, not one could. Let your father then HEAR them and see what he can say. Be subtle, do not tell him what you believe, just tell him you are confused and need answers to these questions. Do not expect any quick fix either. But in time, if he is willing to consider the issues you put on the table, he may begin to see the light.
He does love you. He just wants to save you. No doubt about it. The real issue is, can you save him? -
16
Letter of Disassociation
by Vinny inhttp://p196.ezboard.com/fexjehovahswitnessforumfrm14.showmessage?topicid=237.topic
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Vinny
Yes, I have left the organization, but not God. My faith in God and relationship with Him is far more intimate and stronger now than when I was a Witness. Also, the more time I spend out, the more I begin to just how much control these men exercise in the lives of the average JW. My wife and I are both actually embarrassed about how we just went along with everything for so long since it is not a part our nature to do so. We are both also grateful that neither of us brought the other one INTO the org, but both came in on our own. Otherwise there would be some major finger pointing going on... heh
I am the bad apostate around here in the minds of all the JW's. There are many on this little island. I see them often. Occasionally one will say hello and even talk, which I get a little laugh out of. One was an elder's wife (guess she feels his ability to speak with DA'd ones applies to the wives as well). Most though just go into shun mode. I just remember that these folks are victims themselves, much like most of us here at one time were. Otherwise bitterness would take over. And while "blood" was the driving issue that got the ball rolling for me, my time away from the org, along with investigating the organization critically has only added literally hundreds of other issues to the pile. I find that continuing to inform myself only helps with the deprogramming altogether. It's therapy 101 for me.
**** Because this religion is so controlling and the JW schedule so redundant, this is probably a very familiar sounding story to most JW families. Go to all the meetings, weekend service (riding around in car), kingdom hall cleaning, parts-demos on the service meeting (usually dreaded), commenting (stick to the paragraph), 5 minute talks (also dreaded especially by sisters), shunning, turning in the bad, flattering the CO (elders and future wannabe elders compete for prizes), holidays are bad, worldly people are bad and soon to be destroyed, work for a cleaning business, Bethel is great, limit recreation, do more bible reading, study more, get out in service (riding around in car) even more, volunteer more, donate more etc etc etc etc....
Yep, it's a similar story throughout JW land.
But now, I believe it goes beyond just the JW's too. I recently filmed two television shows on my photography business back in Oct. The host of the show along with his his son (his assistant) are devout Mormons. The Father is a newly appointed Bishop (like a D.O. in JW-land... so look out). Well, they sound just like the JW's. After several e-mail exchanges where I asked him why I would want to exchange one high-control group for another and that doing so would be likened to put my finger into an electric socket twice. He then sent me a very long reply including this:
"We do, unequivocally and unapologetically, claim to be the "only true and living church on the face of the whole earth." ..To illustrate, I suppose I would simply point out that the witnesses believe many of the same true doctrines that Latter-day Saints do. Christianity is a disposition, not a social club, and as such, is the product of conversion, not membership. However, if two groups proclaim opposing doctrines regarding our souls to be true (and many do), it is then up to each individual to seek out which is true, for they cannot both be. Either Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, or he wasn't. Obviously they can't both be true. If he was, then his words are awfully important. Either Gordon B. Hinckley is a prophet today, or he isn't."
cont...
"I also truly believe that Christ's gospel has been restored to the earth today along with the ministering of Angels, the priesthood authority of God and the calling of modern day prophets to guide his children on the earth. Latter-day Saints are not asked to blindly accept anything that is spoken over the pulpit in our meetings. Rather, we are all expected to learn of their truth for ourselves by studying and ultimately praying for light and knowledge. And they do come.".....that said, the invitation is still simply "come and see." I would encourage you to go to a church meeting and see what it's like for yourself. I'd also encourage you to meet with the missionaries and discuss with them without the limitations of e-mail. Would you be willing to do either of these things? Let me know, and I can arrange for the missionaries to contact you.
**** Great Scott Martha! Sounds a little too familiar... I consider myself spiritual, but no longer religious! My reply will be a little more direct.
Anyway, life outside the JW world is definitely better than when I was inside. All is moving forward and improving almost daily. Thanks again for your taking the time to leave your thoughts. It is always appreciated! -
16
Letter of Disassociation
by Vinny inhttp://p196.ezboard.com/fexjehovahswitnessforumfrm14.showmessage?topicid=237.topic
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Vinny
" I am so sorry about your wife and your sons misery. What is happening with him and you now?"