Posts by Pahpa

22

Do JW's stay In the Organization to avoid embarassment?

by moshe in

i just read this behavior study- called the asch study.

it seems to explain why jw's agree with obviously false wt teachings and ignore warnings inside the organization.

it is all to avoid embarassment from peers, friends and family.

Pahpa

I think more than avoiding embarrassment is the fact that upon leaving the organization an individual loses his family and friends. Another factor is many JWs have already given up one religion to become a JW. It's very hard for people to admit to another mistake even to themselves.

There were always certain teachings I found difficult to accept. For example, I could never believe in the Watchtower's teaching on the "gentile times." There was no indication that the prophecy in Daniel that it related to end times. There were no specific quotations of it in the Greek Scriptures. It was purely Watchtower interpretation borrowed from other sources. But like most JWs, I felt the fault was mine in not understanding. Therefore, I was willing to wait until further information about it would appear in the Watchtower literature. It never came!

One should appreciate that if the organization does not have "the truth" then staying in it is an insult to God and to one's self.

9

Jews for Jesus VS. JWs - Which one is closer to the 'truth'?

by Santisimo in

here's my question, which organization do you think follows the teachings of christ more accurately, jews for jesus or the jws?.

after all, jesus did live and die as a jew not a christian.

james, the brother of jesus carried the congregation immediately after his brother's death and he too, lived and died as a jew (even though he was killed by other jews who considered him a blasphemer).

Pahpa

My cousin married a Messianic Jew. She and her husband attended Messianic meetings. But because she did not have a Jewish background, she felt excluded and alienated. They eventually found another evangelical church where everyone was welcomed and treated the same.

"Truth" like beauty can be in the eyes of the beholder.

8

Pyramids what did they exactly believe?

by GBSJG in

the book "the way to paradise" from 1924 on page 155 sums up some of the believes they had about the pyramid of gizeh:.

it is quite probable that shem, the son of noah, a faithful servant of god, was in charge of its construction.. they also mention that the pyramid provides evidence for some dates:.

it gives the date of the exodus of the children of israel from egypt, and the date of the birth and the death of jesus.

Pahpa

freetosee

Thanks for posting the interesting material. The Watchtower Society teaches that Jehovah selected it as God's spokesman in 1919. But considering its beliefs at the time, one has to wonder what made it different from other religions. The Watch Tower still held to Russell's belief in pyramidology along with the dates that Russell felt were "God's." (1799, 1874, 1878, 1881, etc.) All of these teachings are now rejected. Yet, these are the foundations upon which the Watchtower organization grew.

The Second Adventists had the greatest impact upon youthful Russell. Men like George Stetson, George Storrs and later Nelson Barbour shaped and influenced his religious beliefs. They had the ideas. He had the financial means. The Watchtower Society would probably like to foget its origins. But its history can not be erased.

8

Pyramids what did they exactly believe?

by GBSJG in

the book "the way to paradise" from 1924 on page 155 sums up some of the believes they had about the pyramid of gizeh:.

it is quite probable that shem, the son of noah, a faithful servant of god, was in charge of its construction.. they also mention that the pyramid provides evidence for some dates:.

it gives the date of the exodus of the children of israel from egypt, and the date of the birth and the death of jesus.

Pahpa

jwfacts:

I still have the page from one of the books in the "Studies" series that illustrates the Great Pyramid. Most JWs don't realize how important the subject was back in Russell's time. Meetings were conducted around the theme of the pyramid. It was one of the central tenets of the organization at that time.

I'm not sure, though, about Russell's Masonic connections. This subject has been "beaten to death" in the States. Most of the "proof" lies in the similarity of symbols. Naturally, Russell would use the symbol of the pyramid if he really believed it was a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. It does not mean that he was a Mason. He also used the symbol of the crown and cross as did many other Christian religions of that era. It didn't mean that Russell was a member of them. I've yet to find anyone who has come up with his actual membership and lodge in the Masonic organization.

I've heard that his grave site is still cared for by some of the Bible Student groups. Russell is still revered by these people. And, in some cases, the "Studies" remain the main reference frame for their beliefs.

1

Trouble in Paradise?

by Pahpa in

i'm fascinated by the early history of the watchtower organization.

c.t.russell was an interesting person.

he had his strong points and weaknesses.

Pahpa

I'm fascinated by the early history of the Watchtower organization. C.T.Russell was an interesting person. He had his strong points and weaknesses. Lately, I've wondered if his marital problems with his wife, Maria, had anything to do with his move from Pittsburg to Brooklyn. According to James Penton (Apocalypse Delayed) Russell started to have serious problems with Maria in 1894. By 1906 it led to a legal separation. The courts in Pa. gave Maria favorable decisions for support. Russell resisted by claiming he had no assets left. (All had been turned over to the Watchtower.) In 1909, Russell moved his operations to Brooklyn, NY. Was this to get out from the jurisdiction of the courts in Pa.? What do you think?

5

Was there ever.......?

by lavendar in

dear ex-witnesses: was there ever a time, when you were out in service, that someone at the door said something that got you thinking about the wts?........anything that created some doubt about the org.

in the your mind?

if so, do you remember what it was?.

Pahpa

Lavendar

I remember having a long discussion with a minister about the use of Jehovah in the N.T. of NWT. He devasted the arguments I presented. I could only answer that I strongly felt that some day a manuscript would be discovered that would justify the Watchtower's position. I never forgot the experience.

On another occasion, I met a very elderly couple who belonged to the Associated Bible Students who told me about the Rutherford takeover of the organization and subsequent purge of faithful members of the Watchtower. At the time, I accepted that this kindly old couple were of the "evil slave" class. But their words stayed in my memory.

13

For what purpose did Brooklyn Bethel keep records of accussed pedophiles?

by Gill in

i was wondering this, as i remember that leo greenlees was just moved to another congregation and that was all.. so why keep records if they weren't going to use them?.

Pahpa

It's the nature of any authoritarian organization to keep a tight control over those whom they have control. The elders keep these records in the local Kingdom Halls. In turn, they keep the Watchtower informed for their extensive records of all congregations. The elders and leaders of the Watchtower may justify these secret files by claiming the necessity of "keeping the organization clean." But can anyone imagine the early Christians doing this?

29

What the hell is the WTS saying about evolution now?

by Santisimo in

did anyone read the recent wts "special article" about creation and evolution?

i read it and fell of my freaking seat.

get this, the wts now believes (and yes, they want everyone to agree or else) that god created the universe billions of years ago and that nothing was created in six days as shown in genesis!.

Pahpa

As I recall, the Watchtower has always maintained that the words: "In the beginning God created the earth..." could allow for millions or even billions of years. But when the earth was starting to be prepared for man in the creative "days" the Watchtower suggested that the "days" of creation were probably 7,000 years in length based on the last Sabbath of 6000 years plus the 1000 years of the millenium. It reasoned that each "day" was of equal length. But given the questionable record of the Watchtower's prophetic "times", reasonable doubt of its calculations of these times is in order.

34

Does anyone remember?

by Pahpa in

i'm an oldtimer.

but does anyone else remember the "demon scare" back in the 60s or 70s?

the watchtower came out with articles about demon possession.

Pahpa

abandoned:

I wonder if the Watchtower still forbids wind chimes? I always loved them. And my wife and I can once again enjoy the soothing sounds they produce in the summer winds.

34

Does anyone remember?

by Pahpa in

i'm an oldtimer.

but does anyone else remember the "demon scare" back in the 60s or 70s?

the watchtower came out with articles about demon possession.

Pahpa

I'm an oldtimer. But does anyone else remember the "demon scare" back in the 60s or 70s? The Watchtower came out with articles about demon possession. In our congregation members over reacted and began throwing out and burning all articles they thought could be demon possessed. Some were quite valuable. Also, brothers and sisters began accusing one another. We had a sister who did some sewing for one of the pioneer sisters who had been given some second hand clothes. This sister said that she could not thread the needle or sew the clothing because she thought the clothes were possessed. The scare quieted down after awhile when the Watchtower went on to different subjects. But it did demonstrate how impressionable Jehovah's Witnesses are to the dictates of the Watchtower Society.