gotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
"Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him
it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put
everything under Christ. When he has done this,
then the Son himself will be made subject to him who
put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."
1 Corinthians 15: 27,28
...isn't unique to the watch tower society.. the trial took place in march 2008. prior to the trial, not knowing how the young man would plead, we asked pastor dh to come with pastor sw ready to give testimony on our childs behalf if needed.
pastor dh made it known to us they were not coming to the courthouse.
i explained to him if the young man pleaded not guilty, our child would then have to get up in front of the court and reveal the entire ordeal along with answering questions from the attorneys.
Frontline had an interesting program this week on the priestly abuse
of Native children in St. Michael, Alaska. It was a familiar pattern. The
priest and his layworker took advantage of their positions and threatened
the children if they revealed the abuse. In some cases, the parents refused
to believe their own children. The layworker was finally transferred to
another assignment. But the priest remained to continue his abuse for
years. The church praised his work and set him as an example for others.
Part of the settlement of the abused was a demand that the Bishop come
to St. Michael to apologize for the church and its leaders. But the damage
has left a generation of suffering individuals. And the church is now
deserted.
from the june 15, 1938 watchtower, p. 185: "in the beginning of the first hebrew month the watchtower of march 1, 1925 published the article "the birth of the nation," meaning that the kingdom had begun to function.
an editorial committee, humanly provided for, then was supposed to control the publication of the watchtower, and the majority of that committee strenuously objected to the publication of that article "the birth of the nation," but, by the lord's grace it was published and that really marked the beginning of the end of the editorial committee, indicating that the lord himself is running his organization.".
there was no governing body, judge rutherford was the watchtower president making the decisions and running the organization.. .
I think there was a vague notion in Russell's time that the "anointed"
made up the FDS class. But Russell himself made all the important
decisions regarding his organization. Rutherford carried on this
tradition but discouraged the thinking of many Bible Students that
Russell was the FDS. He emphasized that it constituted those who
were anointed. But, in practice, he also made all the important
decisions. According to Penton, the Governing Body came to prominence
in 1975 much to the consternation of N. Knorr and F. Franz. It meant
that they had to relinquish some of their power. However, they
eventually conceded to this "new" arrangement.
hi im part of a group of ex jh,s, we meet for drinks and dinner, go to football games.many of the guys do drugs,(i dont, i like sport) , most live very hedonistic lifestyles, lets leave it at that,(im happily married).
my point is, when i left, i was honest, and got df,d.
now im experiencing the same kind of shit that i experieced in the hall, the ex jw,s are just as judgemental, and stupid as when they were at the kingdom hall, for eg you were df,d we were not,it doesnt matter to them, that their doing coke and getting into group sex.
There are many "classes" of XJWs. Some of the younger XJWs leave the organization
and its restrictions to indulge in all sorts of activities they were denied. Others, forsake
God and the Bible because of their disappointment in the Watchtower. Still others join
churches to have continued fellowship with believers.
When my wife and I left, we found we could channel our energy into helping our
neighbors. It allowed us to forget our painful experiences in the organization,
but still do good toward those in need. If one gives of oneself, it becomes a
fulfilling life where friends are never in short supply.
sorry but the first post seems to have no comment feature so i have started a new thread for the next part.... 1986 was a big article.
to avoid putting up a lengthy poat i have edited it somewhat.. wt 3/15 1986 .
donotbequicklyshakenfromyourreason.
The denial of the organization as God's channel seems to be the basis
of "apostasy." But in Scripture it is the denial of Christ and God that
constitutes true apostasy. When an organization of imperect men
usurps the role of Christ by proclaiming itself as the source of salvation
then it is idolatry....the worst form of apostasy. So, whether it is the
Catholic church claiming no salvation outside the church or the Watchtower
professing that survival/salvation at Armageddon comes only by loyalty to the
organization one has to wonder who are the real apostates!
talking to blackman about the article and was thinking...didn't the whole apostate thing first start getting recognition in the 70's?.
i seem to remeber a thread saying that apostates were a contrivence enforced in the 70's to combat the 1975 fiasco.. could someone research the amount of times apostacy is used before the 70's compared to how much they used or warned against it after the 70's..
The disfellowshipping for "apostasy" was few and far between from the
1950s to the late 1970s. But the events at Bethel triggered an almost
paranoid reaction from the GB. The dismissal of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap
and others at the headquarters caused a great witch hunt throughout
the organization. "Apostates" were found lurking in the congregations.
And any who questioned the FDS and its teachings were labeled as
"apostates." Many were subjected to judicial committee meetings
and thrown out of the association. From what I have read and heard
this paranoia continues to this day.
most the nwt translates john 1:1 as "... and the word was a god," not "...and the word was god.".
the reason they give is that the word theos doesn't have the definite article in front of it in the greek.. in his 1982 book, "the jehovah's witness' new testament," greek scholar robert countess looked up all such occurrences in the nt (theos without the definite article) and checked the nwt.. he discovered that the wts only followed their stated rule 6% of the time.. 94% of the time, they translated it "god" anyway!.
Trinitarians are not above translating Bible passages to suit their
personal view. One only has to read John 1:18 in some of the
new translations to demonstrate how this is done. When a
translator has a choice he will always select the rendering
that favors his viewpoiint.
aristobulus iii of israel (53 bc 36 bc) was the last scion of the hasmonean royal house, brother of herod the great's wife mariamne, and paternal grandson of aristobulus ii.
he was a favorite of the people on account of his noble descent and handsome presence, and thus became an object of fear to herod, who at first sought to ignore him entirely by debarring him from the high priesthood.
but his mother alexandra maccabeus (63 bc 28 bc), through intercession with cleopatra and mark antony, compelled herod to remove hananel from the office of high priest and appoint aristobulus instead.. .
It should be noted that many Jews rejected the Temple priesthood
and arrangement because of its Roman connections. Some even
withdrew from Jerusalem and established their own societies.
While homosexuality may have been practiced and tolerated by Roman
society, it is obvious that it was forbidden in the Christian fellowship.
One only has to read Paul's counsel on the subject to show that it
not to be allowed. It may be another reason that the Romans
considered Christians as "anti-social" and outcasts.
is anyone aware of any scholarly/credible references for orthodox (or other) jewish views on blood?
i would like to share this information with a jw, and was looking for something that leaves jws out of the discussion and would be seen as somewhat authoritative.
thank you..
Since blood transfusions were never an issue it may be difficult to get
a Jewish point of view on the subject. I think most Jews feel that
the prohibition of blood was a sacrificial or dietary regulation that
has no relation to the use of blood transfusions in the medical
field. It is interesting, though, that in recent years the Watchtower
has moderated its view on blood fractions and reversed some of
it previous rules. However, in the mean time, many lives have
been lost from its prohibition of whole blood.
do you fear armageddon as a child?
me personally not so much, then 9/11 happend and things started to change and i started getting scared of it.
how about you?
The Watchtower was always critical of those churches that used the
fear of hell to keep their members in tow. But there is little difference
between the fear of hell and the fear of Armageddon as a threat.
The Watchtower has merely substituted one for the other.
