Posts by Pahpa

21

Scripted Comments Only at WT Study - ?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i learned yesterday that a local co stated in his talk that comments at the wt study are to be from the page and nothing beyond, per brooklyn.

i wasn't there - this may be merely anecdotal and i cannot verify it at present.

Pahpa

CC:

I think this has been more or less the practice for many years at the book study. Years ago, the Society initiated a rule that all book studies had to cover the same material at the same time. And it counselled that those attending should stick to the questions and not digress from them. So, it became routine that the question would be asked and the response would be from the paragraph with, perhaps, a little different wording. Many of us who liked the open discussions and the reading of scriptures that existed before this counsel resented restrictions. But for the sake of "uniformity" we went along with the program. Looking back it was really "conformity" to the authority of the Watchtower Society.

12

LOVING AN ORGANISAION MORE THAN YOUR FAMILY?

by badboy in

jw
friends

were there such people in your congregation?

Pahpa

In the minds of Jehovah's Witnesses it is not a conscious choice of famiy or organization. Rather, it is between God and family. What they don't realize is that by equating God with the organization they are guilty of the worst form of idolatry. Jesus demonstrated that the Jews of his day were doing similar things. Material support for parents could be declared "corban" (gifts for the temple) and not handed over to mom and dad. The same mentality prevails in the organization today. If parents become disfellowshipped, JWs feel that they are no obligation to give material or emotional support to their parents. Rather, loyalty to the "mother organization" prevails. But Jesus' did not buy the argument: "Thus, you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradtion. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by man.' " (Matthew 15:3-9)

24

The CATHOLIC doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave??? Yes!!

by Terry in

majesterium (sacred tradition) is a technical theological term used in some christian traditions, primarily in the roman catholic and eastern orthodox traditions, to refer to the fundamental basis of church dogma.

the term refers to the "deposit of faith" that these churches hold was communicated by jesus christ to his first followers, and which they hold has been passed down (latin tradere, to hand over or hand down) through succeeding generations.

the church as a community, therefore, was the initial receiver, and has remained the guardian and codifier, of sacred tradition.

Pahpa

I agree. And recent events have proven that the Watchtower itself has argued the Catholic position. For example, in the Bohham, Texas case the lawyers argued that the Watchtower was a "hierarchy." And in the cases that involved sexual abuse of children, it has argued its right of "clergy privileges" such as the confidentiality of the confessional.

There can be little doubt of its belief in "majesterium." Any who question the authority of the Governing Body will soon find himself excommunicated.

In fact, it has been noted by some that the Watchtower is "more Catholic" now than the Catholic church!

3

1930's Lawsuits

by 42ndst in

during the 1930's, judge rutherford initiated a number of lawsuits against various catholic archbishops in the united states often claiming $100,000 in damages for various offenses curtailing the freedoms of jehovah's witnesses to proselytize and broadcast.

has a study been done of these lawsuits and their success?

was this just sabre rattling on the part of the judge?

Pahpa

I never heard of these. But it would be a bit ironic in view of the scathing cartoons and vitriolic statements that Rutherford published against the Catholic church during that era. I would think it would have been the reverse: The Catholic church suing the Watchtower for "defamataion of character."

11

conspiracy theories after leaving or being disfellowshipped

by rosalyn in

i need some feedback on treatment after leaving or being disfellowshipped: not necessarily about how you were shunned by family members, ex-friends etc.

but please don't hold back if you would like to let me know about that aspect.

i may relate one or two situations of my own if this thread gets going.. what i am looking for is: did you notice anything that might have been taken as attempts to discredit your name, sanity, credibility etc.

Pahpa

I agree with Junction Guy

Most JWs will not harrass an individual who has been disfellowshipped. To the contrary, they will make at effort to completely shun you. In fact, most JWs don't know what to do when they meet a df'd member.

Undoubtedly, the slander of df'd members takes place mostly within the congregations. (They have to justify someone leaving "God's organization." ) I think they would be more reluctant to discuss the situatiion with "worldly people" who probably would sympathize more with the df'd invididual.

Of course, there are always the exceptions.

24

If WTS said 1+1=3 would JW's accept it, would you have? (mind control ?)

by jwfacts in

a phenomenon of cult mind control is that followers are not to qustion what the leaders say, regardless of how unrealistic or contary to human experience.

consider the following watchtower concepts that jws accept without question.

these are common concepts that any jw could (but does not) prove to be either wrong or straight out lies.. there was a huge increase in earthquakes in the 20th centuryjehovah will kill billions of people because he is a god of lovethe wts correctly foretold the events of 1914the watchtower never suggested 1975lions used to be vegetarian before the flood and will be in the new systemso if the watchtower wrote that 1+1=3 would you have believed it.

Pahpa

Even as a devout JW, I always had mental reservations about some of the Watchtower teachings. True, I did rationalize that it was probably my own fault for not understanding and that, in time, the Watchtower would either explain to my satisfaction or give "new light" on the matter. I guess unlike many JWs I always felt that the organization was just a "tool" that God was using. And like a tool it could be discarded if it wasn't doing the job. Perhaps, it was my old Baptist background that prevented me from giving unquestionable loyalty to a group of men. The Baptist churches I attended as a youth were independent. Ministers could be dismissed by the deacons and congregation if not up to "muster."

16

How Many of the GB Helpers are of the "Annointed"?

by GermanXJW in

when the arrangement of the 'nethinim' (given ones) was introduced in 1992, they stated that the gb helpers would be taken "mainly from among the great crowd".

"mainly" means that there are some helpers who claim to be of the "annointed".

taking a look at the new gb members, they all were gb helpers.

Pahpa

Greendawn

I think the Watchtower leadership is very sensitive to any possible rivalry that may develop in the congregations. Therefore, they occasionally issue cautions for those "anointed" who partake of the emblems. Obviously, from the warnings against "apostasy" that frequently appear in the Watchtower, the leadership at the headquarters is still reacting to the events that occurred in the early 1980s when prominent members, including one on the Governing Body, were forced to leave Bethel.

The paranoia spread to the congregations. And the Watchtower Society ended up losing some of its best and brightest members. I'm sure this process continues in the organization.

25

The GB and Field Service Activity

by karnage in

i was thinking... does the members of the governing body participate in field service?

if these are men who are to take their place in heaven with jesus christ, then shouldn't they be the ones fearlessly leading the charge?

when jesus was here on earth, his disciples went on to preach about him long after jesus had died.

Pahpa

Blondie

We had the same situation in our congregation. The coffee shops were part of the necessary stops. The pioneers seem to be the worst offenders. Another tactic was to take out territory that was rural in nature. The houses were far apart. So the car group would sit in the car and gossip while someone (or two) would go to the door. It was more of a social hour than a ministry. I'm sure that similar things happened in every congregation. Undoubtedly, the "hours" in service that were reported included these diversions.

36

The faithful and discreet slave

by Ryan1 in

i have been doing a bit of research into the witnesses.

i have been told the faithful and discreet slaves reside in brooklyn ny.

these men believe they are appointed by god to lead the jehovah's witnesses and run a publishing company.. what scriptures do they use to back up this claim?.

Pahpa

When elders call or judicial committees are formed, the primary question in cases of "apostasy" is whether or not a person still recognizes the "faithful and discreet slave" as God's sole channel of communication. In my case, I didn't say definately one way or another, but rather said that I had "doubts" about the Watchtower's interpretation of Matthew 24: 45-51. And since the committee refused to let me know what the specific charges were and who my accusers were I did not submit myself to their decisions. (As it was, I later found out that the charge was "apostasy" and the accusers were the same elders who sat on the committee.) I was df'd "in absentia."

25

The GB and Field Service Activity

by karnage in

i was thinking... does the members of the governing body participate in field service?

if these are men who are to take their place in heaven with jesus christ, then shouldn't they be the ones fearlessly leading the charge?

when jesus was here on earth, his disciples went on to preach about him long after jesus had died.

Pahpa

I think it was generally understood by most JWs that the Governing Board members did not go from "house to house" as other members did. The rationale of the time was that they were too busy producing the literature to be able to spend time in this ministry. But I can remember that I had a difficult time to accept this since we were told that the apostles themselves went "from house to house." Were the leaders at Bethel above the apostles?

Of course, later we found out that the term "house to house" really meant "in the homes." ( Compare Acts 5:42 with Acts 2:46) In other words, neither Jesus or the apostles went from house to house as do JWs today. Rather, they taught "in the homes" of interested people. When this explanation caused a slow down in the ministry, the Watchtower quickly reverted back to the old explanation.

One of the early criticisms of Rutherford was from an insider who noted that he sent others forth into the ministry work while he sat back enjoying the luxury of his office.